In this episode, Joe interviews Shahar Amit: psytrance musician who has created what may be the world’s first modular album for psychedelic exploration under his project, Held By Sound.
He talks about his background in the rave and festival scene, the moment he realized he wanted to make music, and the realization that he could create soundscapes specifically for journeys into non-ordinary states. And he digs into the ‘choose your own adventure’ framework of the free album: how he actually recorded 3 different albums and figured out how to transition into different moods based on which direction the listener wants to go – from more still to more expansive, to darker or more bittersweet. He has also created music for DMT trials in the UK, and talks a lot about the potential in extended-state DMT experiences.
He also discusses:
How he came up with the flow of the album related to phases of the trip
How much of a catalyst and safe container music can be, with or without a complimentary substance
How psychedelics in a fun, festival experience with lots of laughter can be extremely beneficial – you don’t need to do them the ‘correct’ way
Graham Hancock, Donald Hoffman, and the concept of consciousness as the building block of all reality
Psytrance, classical music, traditional Bwiti music, Lady Gaga, and what music he feels is best for exploration
In this episode, David interviews Itzhak Beery: author, shamanic teacher, speaker, trip leader, and founder of ShamanPortal.org, an online community and resource for people who want to learn, practice, and teach shamanic traditions.
Beery shares his transformational journey, starting from his upbringing on a kibbutz in Israel, to his disillusioned advertising days in Manhattan, to the life-altering sweat lodge experience in Hawaii that eventually led him to write the book, Shamanic Transformations: True Stories of the Moment of Awakening, and realize his true purpose. He discusses the two major sides of trust: how to know when a healing path has truly become your life purpose, and how to know who to trust as a good healer in a world of self-initiated shamans.
He and David dig into:
How we all have the innate ability to be a shaman
How Westerners are often seeking healing too young, before they have the capacity to truly understand lessons they may receive
His upcoming book which attempts to teach practitioners how to create narratives out of symbols, The Language of Spirit
The importance in not denying the experiencer’s truth
His insights on palm reading and the concept of predetermined paths
and more!
Notable Quotes
“We are all shamans. Every human being is built– Their DNA is built in to be able to see, to vision, to dream, to dance, to sing, to hug, to drink, to hug, to make people feel comfortable. The ability to do the shamanic work is built in with every one of us, to take care of other people, for the well-being of the community.”
“The main problem that I see is that people from the West come to ayahuasca like a magic drink, but they don’t speak the language of spirit. They don’t speak the language of plants of the Amazon. Now, when you start drinking it from the age of six or eight, you are already understanding the intricate visions that [are] connected to your body and are connected to the whole world of spirit. So they have a context where they can hold what your body physically experienced and what they visually experienced. When we come from [a] digital world [with] zero connection to nature, and we just dumped ourselves into a world that is steeped in magic, we don’t know how to accept it. We don’t speak that language.”
“In our culture, we go to the Himalayas, we go to the Amazon, we go to the mountains, we go to who knows where, to the rivers, to wait for the moment that God will just hit us over the head and we’ll be enlightened. And the truth is that every moment of our life is a moment of awe, of enlightenment, and we have to really sit with it for a minute. We are always looking from the enlightenment outside of [ourselves], that somebody will give it to us. …How many people are going to all kinds of places around the world? But that moment that you are already looking for; it’s already happened. You just have to recognize it. …Every moment that we are alive is a moment of miracle. It’s a moment of enlightenment. And we have to live like that, in that awe, in that place; that every moment is a moment that you can transform your life. You don’t have to wait to take ayahuasca, yagé, nátem, all the other stuff, to experience the transformation.”
She talks about her early abduction experiences, the time when she and her father realized they were both being abducted at the same time (from different locations), and the horrifying experience of six beings entering her apartment and realizing she knew one of them. These experiences led her to Budd Hopkins, and eventually John Mack (who did regression work with her) and the John E. Mack Institute, where she became a peer mentor for abductees. She talks about the validity of alien abductions, the concept of spiritual ecology, and the importance of listening to people: There’s so much we don’t know, so is it fair to label experiencers as schizophrenic just because we can’t replicate the experience?
She discusses:
The commonality of people from the same family being abducted and why some people are lifetime abductees while others are only taken once
The differences in abductions and how some seem to only be mental while others are physical and extremely painful
The story of Linda Napolitano and the famous Brooklyn Bridge abduction
Regressive hypnotherapy work: Are the memories you’re recovering accurate?
Quantum biology, the Penrose-Hameroff quantum theory of consciousness, parallel realities, time travel, and quantum jumping
and so much more! As the X-Files made famous: The truth is out there. And this episode is definitely pretty out there!
Notable Quotes
“I’m so sad about how our religions say that there’s only one being that can help you, because there are lots of beings that will help you. I’m not mad with the one being that our Western worldview says– I’m not mad with him at all, but, you know, there are lots of beings. You just have to not be afraid.”
“When you go through alien abduction stuff, especially when you first do it, the stuff that you remember is nothing that you could come up with from a movie or from your life or from what you know about life, and the physical stuff that happens is so painful that it’s nothing that you would want to come up with. It’s not like ‘I wanted to have this glorious experience.’ …How in the world could a movie make you come up with that stuff when there are no movies about it because there are no words for it and there’s no ontology for it? And it’s so incredibly painful, why would you do that?”
“We don’t understand our own minds, we don’t understand consciousness, [and] we have a religiosity around understanding what ego is. I grew up thinking that ego is this terrible thing, and now I’m like, no, it’s here to keep you in your body. …It’s all about being safe in your body. And when you work with your consciousness, it’s kind of not a thing because it doesn’t matter where your body is or if you even have one. At all these different levels of consciousness, you’re going to find bodies all over the place, and eventually, this one is just really a temporary meat sack. So, you know: Get over it, ego.”
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Christine Caldwell: graduate of the first cohort of Vital and Founder of End of Life Psychedelic Care (EOLPC); and Mary Telliano: end-of-life coach, psychedelic facilitator, and Founder of The Anam Cara Academy, which trains people in the art of end-of-life coaching.
Whether we’re comfortable with it or not, we’re all going to die. And research shows that psychedelic experiences can help tremendously with the anxiety and depression that surround that inevitable transition between realms. Caldwell and Telliano discuss the role of a death doula; how they found their way into end-of-life care; why the West’s relationship with death changed during the Civil War; the role of families in the process; the legality of providing end-of-life psychedelics and the complications that arise when people are unable to leave their homes; and how different substances can be used based on each person’s abilities and comfort level.
They talk about why the mystical experience of psychedelics can be so helpful during this process (and how the placebo effect can be a very real factor); tell a few stories of amazing things they’ve witnessed while doing this work; and drive the point home of how important it is for us to reintegrate death as a natural part of life – to have rites of passage around death, to learn from death, and, much like we need to remember our inner healing capacity, realize that we all have the capacity to play the role of a death doula for someone else.
Notable Quotes
“We are on the forefront of people calling back in sacredness, calling back in those pieces that we’ve forgotten. I was about to say ‘missing’ and I’m really trying to reframe that linguistic and say ‘forgotten’ because it’s never gone away; we’re just really remembering this piece and this emphasis on how important it is to honor the transitions as a community, as a whole. And what it does for me on a personal level as a death doula, how it’s changed me by witnessing so many people dying, is that I’ve witnessed my death over and over and over and over again through these people. And I’ve gotten to kind of really sit and be comfortable in a space that I think a lot of people shy away from. And being in the room with somebody who is in transition is one of the biggest gifts you can get because you carry that with you now. And so, the work of a doula is also in service to ourselves.” -Mary
“It’s the mystical experience. I just firmly believe that, because we’re working with people who have an openness, a receptivity to looking at spirituality in terms of coming to terms with their death and dying, and looking into whether or not there is a greater consciousness, which of course we know there is. And psychedelics are the portal to that greater consciousness.” -Christine
“The technology of psychedelics helps us transcend beyond our body. And if we can make meaning outside of ourselves, things become a little bit more [navigable] because now, we have enough inside of us to remember that there’s something that happens outside of us, and these two worlds start to communicate and inform each other.” -Mary
In this episode, Joe interviews Flor Bollini. Named “The Corporate Shaman” by Forbes Magazine, she is an entrepreneur, medicine woman, and the Founder and CEO of NANA Health.
NANA Health is a platform that provides best practices, educational content, and peer to peer support around a framework that is fully personalized, using what they call “psychedelic-initiated transformative medicine.” Inspired by feminine energy, African tradition, and Ayurveda, their concept is that if you can’t afford a luxurious retreat, what can you do at home? What are the lifetime practices and biohacking techniques that can enable your self-healing capabilities to take over, with or without any psychedelics? Is your trajectory reversible?
She talks about accepting her healing destiny and what she learned from several ayahuasca experiences across different countries; contrast therapy and the use of sweat lodges throughout history; how so many of our struggles come from repressing sexual energy; why 5-MeO-DMT is the best tool to treat the most complex issues; the concept of using 5-MeO as a Eucharist in church; why we need to connect with the divine; and why we need more spirit in Western medicine.
Notable Quotes
“I was a non-believer and I had no framework. …But then psychedelics screw that up. If you’re agnostic, then you have a psychedelic experience; well, it doesn’t matter what you believe or not believed before. Now, you had the experience and you know there’s something, but you don’t have a framework of how to bring it back, what just happened. And especially serving 5-MeO is very drastic. There is no God, then there is a God, [then] you are God in five minutes.”
“Don’t be our intermediary anymore. Let me communicate directly with [the] source, because that is how we’ve been designed to work. And when you took that away from us, it actually affected us enormously; first, because we lose our connection with nature, we lose our connection with ourselves, we lose our connection with one another, we don’t understand sexuality as a healing and spiritual practice. It’s portrayed more like being a pig. …All the most direct ways of connecting with [the] source have been demonized.”
“At some point, you don’t need the medicine anymore. At some point, it is your lifestyle practices that sustain your transformation.”
“Spirit is important, and spirit is something that doesn’t exist in Western medicine.”
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Daan Keiman, MA: Buddhist, Psychedelic Chaplain, and Co-Founder of the psychedelic think-and-practice tank, Communitas Collective Foundation; Aura Ahuvia: Rabbi who served five years as President of the ALEPH (Alliance for Jewish Renewal) Board and is now the Founder of Psychedelic Rabbi; and Josh Harper: Consciousness Medicine Guide who works with Ligare, a Christian Psychedelic Society.
They dig deep into the intersection of psychedelics and spirituality, focusing largely on the concept of psychedelic chaplaincy: how they each define it and how spiritual caregivers are uniquely positioned to be of service to those coming out of powerful and unexplainable mystical experiences (whether they be psychedelic or not). They discuss why being grounded in a spiritual tradition is important, but how it’s often more important to be open to mystery and exploring that which is complex and difficult, even if that means someone questioning if their religion is truly right for them anymore.
Each tell their stories of struggling with and eventually embracing their religion and how psychedelics and spirituality became part of their lives, and discuss much more: Psychedelics in religious history and the slow embrace of mysticism in today’s renaissance; the importance of truly listening to individuals’ experiences and not dismissing life-changing experiences as ‘drug-induced’; how practice (no matter what kind) is a huge benefit of religion; and the need to eventually de-center psychedelics from the narrative – that the shared experience of coming together in community and asking big questions is where the healing truly lies.
Notable Quotes
“My approach personally to working with people outside of my Jewish tradition is to know that on the one hand, I am grounded in my own tradition, but on the other hand, I carry it lightly into that space because I’m aware that our connection in that moment is going to be: We are two fellow humans and there is no need for that which grounds me to be that which grounds somebody else.” -Aura
“The vocation of the church is to see people healed and whole, but it seems like the church is more interested in defending its own version of the truth than to see the healing and wholeness of people. And for any Christian Pastors or leaders out there who are listening to this, it’s very likely that you will have people in your congregations who are coming to you with these experiences, and you have the opportunity to listen to them, regardless of your own personal feelings of psychedelics. You have the opportunity to listen, to welcome them in. And I believe that the church, with that kind of openness, can be a great place for integration.” -Josh “I think it can become potentially harmful, especially in the long run, if we start to see these places where people can come kind of exist over time; if the only way we have access to this is because we’re going to take a psychedelic substance. And I think the sooner we de-center psychedelics, the less risk we have, thinking that it’s about the experiences, and the more we start to realize it’s about the relationships that we maintain. And it’s not about the shared religion, it’s not about the shared experience, it’s about the fact that, as humans, we come together and ask ourselves: What does it mean to be alive right now? And in asking it in a community, we’re also partly living that answer.” -Daan
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David speaks with two current Vital students: Certified Depth Hypnosis Practitioner and Founder and Executive Director of Zoo Labs, Vinitha Watson, CHT; and artist and outdoorsman with decades of experience in bodywork, structural integration, and Vipassana meditation: Judson Frost.
They talk about their personal paths: Watson’s work educating musicians about the music business and their value with Zoo Labs and Frost’s work as an artist; as well as how their experience as parents has grounded them, and how they found Vital. They discuss the importance of integration, having a process, and recognizing how long that can take; being adequately prepared and learning mindfulness skills ahead of a journey; and bringing courage to the space (and as the space-holder, encouragement). They talk about how they hold space, and how one needs to view integration from a spiritually-open perspective to enable people to find their own meanings behind what they experienced.
They discuss how Watson uses a combination of hypnotherapy, transpersonal psychology, and buddhism to create a slowed down mystical experience; how hypnotherapy can benefit a psychedelic experience; bodywork and how we can’t view the mind and body separately; and more. And since they’re nearing the end of their Vital experience, they discuss what they’ve gotten out of it, and reflect on something they didn’t expect: a collective feeling of regenerative healing inside their Vital community.
Notable Quotes
“There is a lot of harm that can be done when there’s no space for integration. As much as we may feel that it’s alleviating our pain, there has to be space in between to really look at the material, to look at the symbols of our psyches, and to really be able to get this intimate understanding of the symbols of our psyches and what they’re telling us. And so, I think it’s such a special place to go into integration after a psychedelic journey, and to really have a process and someone holding that space for you.” -Vinitha
“The first thing I bring to a space (and I encourage other people to bring to the space) is courage, and that bravery and that ability to kind of face the unknown, and face our fears and still move forward into them. I feel [that] to encourage someone is really important; like support and encourage them to take a step towards something they feel uncomfortable with. …We don’t usually have that support to really face that and to learn from it.” -Judson
“Thinking about culture and how a lot of it is in this disembodied state, and what the result is is disease, is pain, is sorrow. I think that’s why psychedelics and altered states are just so important, because it just gives you a state to come back to yourself, and a doorway in.” -Vinitha
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Erika Dyck: Vital instructor, historian, professor, author, and editor of the new book, Expanding Mindscapes: A Global History of Psychedelics; and Jono Remington-Hobbs: graduate of the first cohort of Vital, coach, facilitator, and now, Co-Founder of Kaizn, an experiential wellness company with a strong focus on community, creating a feeling of safety, and modern rites of passage.
They talk a lot about rites of passage and how they create liminal spaces to reflect on the deeper questions we need to ponder but our culture doesn’t allow time for. They talk about how categorization took us away from tradition; how so much of what we get out of these experiences isn’t related to psychedelics at all; why we struggle with connection in the digital age; the power of community as medicine and recognizing a kinship in others; and why we need to integrate our heads and hearts and live more heart-led lives.
They also dive into why cultures have always sought out non-ordinary states of consciousness; how our current state of needing to make sense of a chaotic world is similar to the mindstate of the 60s; psychedelics’ success in palliative care; coaching and why it should be attached to therapy; the creation of the word “psychedelic”; flow states and discovering the intrinsic calling we all have; and the Vital question that starts the podcast out: Are psychedelics the future, or will psychedelics just bring about a different way to think about the future?
“I keep sort of wrestling with this question about whether the future of psychedelics is really about psychedelics or whether psychedelics are a tool for unlocking a different kind of future. …And to me, that’s really an exciting possibility for what this psychedelic renaissance holds: that it’s an opportunity to really take stock of what we want to revive about the past, whether it is psychedelic or not. It might be something more sacred, it might be a kind of humanity or a kind of way of thinking, that focusing on psychedelics allows us to think differently about how we want to organize those thoughts, those actions. And I think it’s a really exciting opportunity to invest in this kind of renaissance moment, to really blend these historical impulses with an opportunity to think about a different future.” -Erika
“The role of community with psychedelics: I think that we can occasionally get a little bit lost that it’s the psychedelics, the medicine. And the more I’m seeing is that the medicine is community and psychedelics are the implementation tool of that medicine.” -Jono
“Tolerance is a word that comes to mind as you were talking. I think that one of my hopes is that (and it doesn’t have to be everybody taking psychedelics) it can be just tolerance towards difference. I think psychedelics can help us to come into a place where we can appreciate that diversity is a strength, that difference is a strength, that sameness isn’t necessarily the strength or the goal that we should be striving towards.” -Erika
“[Psychedelics] are an offsetting of an eternal balance between these two hemispheres. And we’ve gone so far one way with this worldview where we are also gamified by what we do. The amount of information that I know because an algorithm wants me to know; it terrifies me when I actually think about it, but on the other side, the amount of wisdom …that’s available from us, from these experiences that we’re having that help guide us back to this other way of being gives me radical hope – radical, radical hope that things haven’t gone too far. It’s just the pendulum has swung very far one way, and I think psychedelics are some of the momentum to take us back the other way and back to ourselves, each other, and Mother Nature.” -Jono
He tells his personal story and how his first psychedelic experience felt like a homecoming; discusses his Rebel Wisdom media platform, where, through interviews, he tried to make sense of social upheavals and conflicts through a more flexible, psychedelic way of thinking; and digs deep into the Greek concepts of Moloch and Kairos: how Moloch represents the winner-take-all, race to the bottom, sacrifice-your-values-to-appease-the-system game playing we all get stuck in, and Kairos represents the openness that comes from psychedelics – the transitional, seize-the-moment opportunities we need to take advantage of. And he discusses much more: the power of dialectic inquiry; the corporatization of psychedelics and how we’re really in a psychedelic enlightenment; how the medicalization of psychedelics is like a Trojan horse; and the concept of technology (and specifically the internet) mirroring the switching between realms that we think is so rare in psychedelics – aren’t we doing that every time we look at our phones?
Beiner was recently part of Imperial College London’s initial trials on intravenous, extended-state DMT, testing correct dosages and speeds for the pump. He describes the details of the study, how he thought they were messing with him at first, and what he saw in his experiences: an outer space-like world of gigantic planet-like entities, and how a massive Spider Queen entity taught him about intimacy and how our metaphysical and personal worlds aren’t separate at all.
Notable Quotes
“There’s a particularly psychedelic way of thinking in my view. …I would define it as a flexibility in how we think and a looseness and a creativity and a playfulness with how we approach the world that psychedelics can open up in us. And I think that’s so deeply needed right now. So my hope is to kind of combine that ethos together with a lot of very practically important, interesting, sociological, psychological, scientific, and metaphysical insights, and use all of that to write a book that hopefully gives people new lenses in which to make sense of the world and psychedelics.”
“The process of speaking to the truth of your lived experience in the moment is deeply transformative. And it’s also, in my experience and I think the experience of many people, it’s what psychedelics encourage us to do: They encourage us to be with the truth of our experience and go into what we’ve been hiding from and avoiding, and feel it – feel the truth of what’s actually going on. And that is so, so powerful culturally because so many of our cultural shadows and our polarization and our ‘at each other’s throats’ and our ideological fixations come from these unsaid things. So there’s so many practices, psychedelics included, that can open us up into the truth of what’s going on. And I think that is just the most transformative practice or approach that there is that I’m aware of.”
This sequel to their fascinating discussion about shadow work earlier this year focuses on dreams, as Amara, while dreaming that she was having an acid trip and coming to the realization that dreams and LSD may be sending her to the same place, is researching the similarities between the odd worlds of dreams and psychedelic experiences: Is it the same place? Do the dreams we have after psychedelic experiences continue those visions and ‘Aha!’ moments? Can they answer questions for us (the concept of “sleep on it”)? Does dream analysis result in a greater feeling of integration? Can we use the dreams we have before experiences to help guide the experience itself?
The conversation goes a lot of places: the many aspects of Jungian psychology; the fluidity of Indigenous perspectives around visible and invisible worlds; how Jung wrote “The Red Book”; the concept of eros and reclaiming our relationship with aliveness; how nature is in constant equilibrium (as are we); how to build a relationship with your dreams; how to work with symbols in dreams; and much more. Ultimately, this episode is about the clash between the conscious and unconscious, the willed and the incidental, and waking life and other realities, and dream analysis and integration work is really tracking vitality in the human psyche: what is alive in us and how does it want to live out in our beings? What makes us come alive? Can our dreams tell us?
Notable Quotes
“I was inside my dream, analyzing my dream, and having the phenomenological experience of being on LSD, and it was like, ‘Holy shit, is this the same place?’” -Mackenzie
“When you sit with a dream image that maybe scares you or that you avoid: When you sit with it long enough for its purpose to be revealed, it’s like, ‘Man, cool, thank you for sending me that image.’ And you can start to trust that there’s something larger inside of you that has your back. And that level of trust, that level of existential secure attachment (is what I’ve been calling it lately) is un-fuck-with-able. Nobody can take that from you. Once you have that, you’re good. All the chaos can happen around you, but you’ve got something inside of you that nobody can touch.” -Mackenzie
“These are all experiences with the numinous. The numinous wears all the shapes. It’s only our human hubris that searches for it in particular shapes. If we kind of quiet that hubris a little bit and let the self, let the numinous talk in its own language for a second, we can all be humbled to see how vast its language is and how it can find us even in the most ridiculous images.” -Ido
“When we have these experiences, when we’re given this content from our unconscious, it’s an invitation to join the family, to join the life that is living through all things. And that to me, is just really, really hopeful, and I think it’s why I’m so inspired and passionate about psychedelics, is the possibility of them to alleviate that nihilistic thought pattern that says ‘I’m alone in this world.’ When we really, really feel into what’s happening for us, it’s collective. We’re in a collective experience, constantly, all the time. And that’s really beautiful and healing.” -Mackenzie
In this episode, Joe interviews Louie Schwartzberg: renowned filmmaker known for the award-winning documentary, “Fantastic Fungi”; and now, director of the new film, “Gratitude Revealed.”
He talks about his path to photography and filmmaking and how psychedelics were a huge inspiration – how his techniques of slowing down, speeding up, and zooming in were ways to capture the invisible aspects of reality – that which is “too slow, too fast, too small, and too vast for the human eye,” but is always there. He discusses the premiere of “Fantastic Fungi” and the waves it spread through the psychedelic space; The Louie Channel, his new streaming channel that will feature all his work in 4k and the work of other curated artists and friends; and the clinical trial he’s involved in to see if participants have better results in the treatment of their alcohol use disorder by watching his imagery set to music on an 80-inch screen while on psilocybin – research that hopefully leads to the concept of being able to prescribe images and music to people based on specific criteria.
He discusses his new film, “Gratitude Revealed,” which explores the power of gratitude: making it a daily practice (and especially a post-psychedelic integration practice), how resilience is one of the best benefits from practicing gratitude, and how easy it is to stop a rumination spiral by simply finding something to be grateful for. He also talks about the blessing of being a photographer and always thinking of beauty; how psychedelics make people more environmentally conscious; tripping with parents; how a shared love of nature could be the bridge between opposing sides; and how the best way to deal with the climate crisis is to start in your own yard.
Notable Quotes
“We’re talking about psychedelics on your podcast, but the truth is, I think the imagery I want to create for your community, this community, is exactly the same as I would do for a four-year-old or a five-year-old. How beautiful is that? It’s about wonder and awe. It’s about being open-minded.” “The politicians, they understand how to press that fear button. They go right to the cultural differences and press the abortion button or the gun thing or whatever it might be, and all the lies and all that. I don’t want to even spend another second talking about that, other than [to say] we have to be conscious that pressing the fear button is easy to do because that’s survival, and you get an immediate reaction. The films I’m trying to make and what we’re discussing here is making people laugh, making people cry, making people fall in love. That takes a little more talent than pointing a gun at you. …Beauty and love and gratitude is the emotional energy we can employ to overcome fear.”
“It’s a great tool. It’s not like we have to practice meditation, become a Yogi for like ten years or 20 years of practice. It’s something you can do immediately. It’s not like a meditation thing that you have to become an expert in. It’s like, how easy is it just to ask yourself in the moment: what can I be grateful for? Pretty easy.”
In this episode – with the 2024 edition of Vital announced and applications officially open – we’re launching another series of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, with David hosting Jasmine Virdi: Vital instructor, writer, educator, and activist who works at Synergetic Press and volunteers for Fireside Project; and Tabata Gerk: Vital student, psychotherapist, and facilitator.
As always, they discuss what they think the most vital conversation should be right now, largely expressing concerns over the medicalization of psychedelics and the idea of a ‘traumadelic culture,’ where psychedelics are often only seen as healers of trauma and not doorways to mysticism and new ideas. And they point out another concern: the romanticization of Indigenous culture and not recognizing that these are contemporary cultures that are affected by the same Western, capitalist paradigms that affect us all.
They also discuss the concept of epistemic injustice and needing to respect other ways of knowing; hyper-individualism and why we became so reductionist as a society; the role of money (who defines the problem and the solution?); concerns over who decides who is allowed to use these substances; the power of small steps of change; and, through talking about Gerk’s recent Amazonian ayahuasca experience, they dig into what it is about these experiences and surrounding communities that make them so special. Could we take some of that and effectively incorporate it into our Western models?
Notable Quotes
“In this day and age that we exist in, I think there’s a medicalization of psychedelics, and they’re really kind of honed in on for their ability to treat different mental health and behavioral disorders. And I think that they’re so much more than that.” -Jasmine
“I think that there’s a lot of romanticization of Indigenous cultures as well, and through that, there can be an active erasure of those cultures. Indigenous cultures have been evolving alongside Western, industrial, globalist culture, so they’re not peoples who are stuck in time, and I think that the Western mind, a lot of people want to perceive those cultures as kind of like, ‘Oh, they kept something pure, and we’re going to go back to these people because they have this purity that they’ve maintained over time.’ It’s like perpetuating this idea of ‘the noble savage.’ I think that Indigenous people also are contemporary, so I think it’s really important to recognize that. …These cultures have problems, these cultures are evolving, and these cultures are influenced by modern Western, industrialized, globalist culture, [and] capitalism as well.” -Jasmine
“Plant medicine was one of the things that brought me healing there. We have three ayahuasca ceremonies, we have Kambo ceremony. But it was not only that. Everything that I saw, every conversation that I have with them was a part of the healing I received there. Not to mystify the Indigenous community, [but] their healing doesn’t come only from plant medicine. It comes from daily basis. It comes from the way they work, they relate. They are connected on a daily basis.” -Tabata
In this episode, David interviews East Forest: Portland, OR-based producer, podcaster, ceremony guide, and musician, specializing in ambient, electronic, contemporary classical, and indie pop music largely to guide listeners through deep journeys.
Forest discusses his live performances and influences; how his music pairs with journeys and specific psychedelics; the difference in the connection and vibe from a live performance vs. a recording; the difference between single-artist music created specifically for sessions vs. Spotify playlists; the inhumanity of generative music; his Journey Space online music and journey platform; and the challenges of making money in a time when music is more prevalent than ever, but also more in-the-background and diluted.
He talks a lot about sound itself: the role of rhythm and sound in communication and personal transformation; how richer overtones and increased layers of sound increase effects; research into very low pulsating tones, and how more synthesized sound and the growth of AI has created a yearning for more authentic, imperfect sounds.
His newest album was just released August 18: “Music For The Deck of The Titanic,” an homage to the musicians who spent their last few hours playing songs for passengers amidst the chaos and tragedy – an album Forest sees as an offering to the chaotic moment we’re all in.
Notable Quotes
“I’m trying to make music that is intended to come directly into the foreground and pass the foreground into the place where you merge with the music, and the music becomes the sonic architecture by which you are having an experience inside, and perhaps become it, synesthetically. So I want to go way beyond it being in the background. I actually want it to be even more than a guide. It’s almost like you synthesize with it as one: like who’s guiding who? There can be a magic to those experiences that’s far beyond anything I’ve ever experienced in anything else in life, and that’s really the North Star that I want to be in service to. I don’t think, even, that that’s something that I can concoct or conceive totally. It’s more opening myself up to some kind of magic that’s way beyond anything I could decide.”
“What I love about humans’ creativity is the fact that we can be creative and we can celebrate that by making things like art. When I’m surprised by art is the best feeling. And so giving people support to create: as of now, we can’t beat that. You’re just asking yourself: how far can we go in this celebration and in this experience? I have never experienced a generative experience that’s even anywhere close to where we can go with one person sharing their humanity in a way that’s beautiful. If it’s innovative, even better.”
In this episode, David interviews Dr. Gabrielle Lehigh: Co-Founder and Managing Director of Psychedelic Grad, a web-based community serving as an educational and career hub for up-and-coming psychedelic professionals; and the host of the related podcast, “Curious to Serious,” where she speaks with students and professionals about the path they took to land in the psychedelic field.
Lehigh recently earned her Ph.D. with research on something not many are looking at: the stories behind powerful and transformative psychedelic experiences specifically at music events, based on 38 interviews and over 500 surveys mostly collected at day-long festivals in the southern United States. While the goal was largely data collection in support of the clear potential for therapeutic benefit in using psychedelics in recreational settings (as many of us who have experienced this can attest), she was surprised to learn how many people still blindly trust dealers; how much festival security can affect safety; how the community often makes more of a difference than the music itself; and how many parallels exist between colder clinical models of psychedelic-assisted therapy and the completely open festival experience.
She discusses how she found her way from environmental justice to psychedelics; what people are most looking for on Psychedelic Grad; why she chose to use the word “transformative” in her research; what music she has had her best experiences with; why psychonauts shouldn’t forget about Pink Floyd; and much more.
Notable Quotes
“I went to my advisor at the time and I said, ‘Listen, I want to change the direction that I’ve been going in.’ I’m like, ‘I either want to study the anthropology of space colonization,’ (which is so out there) ‘or I want to study psychedelics.’ And my advisor was like, ‘Neither one of those is anywhere near what you were studying before. What happened?’”
“I can be somewhat frustrated sometimes when, from the clinical setting, there’s this idea that recreational use has no benefit for people, because I’ve seen it from other people’s experiences, [and] there have been experiences that I’ve had in those types of recreational settings that have been incredibly beneficial for me. Even when I started taking psychedelics, even though I was taking them at home; it wasn’t clinical, it wasn’t medical, it wasn’t necessarily therapeutic as defined by ‘therapeutic,’ so it was still considered recreational. So I was just really frustrated in seeing repeated notions that recreational isn’t necessarily beneficial. And so I set out to be like: well, if it’s not beneficial, then maybe we should go check it out and see what’s really going on.”
“When we think about the clinical setting, when we look at the MAPS protocol and everything, music is a part of it. But in the interviews, people talked about the value of live music. There’s something special and something unique about music being created in the moment, and you, as a spectator, are part of the creation of that music, and there’s something really special going on there. …It’s the music, and it’s not just the music as the music, it’s this live production of the music. There’s some type of magic in it.”
In this episode, Kyle interviews the Reverend Dr. Brian Rajcok, Lead Pastor at St. Matthew Lutheran Church in Avon, Connecticut, who recently completed his Ph.D. in pastoral counseling.
Rajcok dives into the intersection of spirituality, religion, mysticism, and how psychedelics bring these topics together, discussing a transformative peyote ceremony and the awe-inspiring moments of surrender, connection, and divine presence that left a lasting impact on him and deepened his connection to God. And he talks about his recently completed dissertation that was inspired by it all: “The Lived Experience of Professional Mental Health Clinicians With Spiritually Significant Psychedelic Experiences,” which he created to gauge the relationship between religious spiritual commitment, tolerance, and multicultural counselor competency. He shares stories from the study and reflections on how these experiences have changed the way involved clinicians work.
And he discusses much more in the realm of psychedelics and religion: why he pursued pastoral counseling and how psychedelics come into play; the balance between tradition and reason and spiritual commitment and tolerance; the legal and regulatory considerations of religious psychedelic use; the concept of a faith quadrilateral; the need for psychedelic experiences in counseling training programs; the big question of ‘when is it religion and when is it mental health care?’; and how the future of psychedelic spirituality could be humanity’s biggest evolution.
Notable Quotes
“There were moments in the night where I felt like I was looking at the fire, having a feeling of being in Hell. And then there was this shift of when I said, ‘Okay, if I’m in Hell, accept that.’ And then I accepted that, and then there was this total emotional shift to like, ‘Wow, now I’m in Heaven!’ It was just this beautiful experience of accepting the worst, and then once that work was done, it shifted into this beautiful experience. That was a very profound moment for me.”
“People who are more religiously committed tend to have a reputation for being less tolerant, and people who are the most tolerant tend to have a reputation of being the least committed. But I think that what we see from people who have (whether it’s psychedelic experiences or naturally occurring) mystical experiences, there’s a level of religious spiritual commitment and tolerance at the same time that increases. So that was one thing that I wanted to explore.”
“That was another really profound one: people who experienced different spirit guides; experiences of the divine; encounters with deceased relatives was another one; there was someone who was not a Christian who had an experience with Jesus. So there’s a lot of these profound encounters. …And they’re so healing that it’s obvious that there’s something good going on here. It’s not just your imagination running wild, there’s a real [connection] to the spirit realm or to whatever other dimensions of reality, and it’s such a mystery, but it’s clear that there’s something real going on.”
In this episode, David interviews Dr. Rosalind Watts: famed clinical psychologist, former clinical lead on Imperial College London’s first Psilocybin for Depression trial, and Founder of ACER Integration.
She discusses the awakening she had after having a child; her work at Imperial College and realizing the importance of staying in touch with patients; the challenges of balancing her work with being a mother; her ACER integration model and the interconnectedness of trees in a forest; how the Watts Connectedness Scale works (and David fills it out); and how much the outside-the-hype surrounding pieces matter – the therapy, the therapeutic relationship, the lessons learned, and the work done to integrate it all.
And she talks about another moment of awakening, at last year’s Psych Summit conference, where capitalism’s obsession with profit-over-care frameworks and “magic bullet” and “brain reset” narratives was on full display, which fully enforced what she hopes for in the future: a world where we embrace non-clinical, ceremonial, and nature-based practices; with healing centers (psychedelic and non); supportive communities; infrastructure around conflict resolution and restorative justice; and a shift towards collectivism and collaboration – and how that all starts by finding our psychedelic elders.
Notable Quotes
“I’m a tourist. I’m listening, I’m learning, but I know that I don’t have deep roots and that there are people that do. So it ties into that thing about finding the elders: as we find our elders for conflict resolution and for therapy and for healing and for psychedelic healing, I also hope we find the elders who are deeply rooted in Indigenous traditions, from Indigenous traditions all over the world, and that they can teach us and teach me, if they will, those stories and those ways, and that then, my daughter: if she can learn through her life, she can grow up with it in a way that I didn’t – so she can have deep roots in that tradition.”
“When we’re on the riverbank and we’ve had our cup of tea and we’ve warmed by the fire, we can look upstream and think: all the people that are coming down the river, what might they need? And then we can kind of run and chuck them the blankets or a chocolate biscuit or the things that they might need, or just shout to them and say, ‘Hey, you’re doing great. It’s crazy out there, there’s a riverbank soon. You can come and sit and join us.’ So it’s like, it’s also about thinking of what’s next for us, but also thinking of all the people that are coming and how we can support each other on the rapids as well.”
There are a great many tales to be told about the countercultural years of the 1960s, but the story of tripping Rabbis whose psychedelic exploration contributed to a great Jewish Renewal isn’t found in many history books.
While the world was shaken by the Vietnam War and the ongoing Cold War, the counterculture represented a rise of a new consciousness expressed in forms of music, art, drugs, and civil disobedience. In a collective rise against the ‘American dream’ utopia built by their parents, the young generation sought to find alternatives to materialist and conservative values. For them, the counterculture was a strike of anti-establishment, in an egalitarian spirit emphasizing the value of human relationships and the individual’s quest for meaning in life.
Drugs like LSD, cannabis, and mescaline became increasingly common with renowned academics, authors and poets of the era. But they weren’t the only cultural leaders exploring the power of mind-altering substances; while the world watched Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert (later known as Ram Dass), Aldous Huxley, and Allen Ginsberg encourage the new generation to turn on, tune in, and drop out, a few radical rabbis were quietly exploring the use of psychedelics to get closer to God, and revive age-old mystical traditions.
I was inspired to investigate the connection between liberal Jewish movements and psychedelics after encountering the article ‘Psychedelics and Kabbalah,’published in the Jewish youth magazine Response (1968) by Itzik Lodzer. Lodzer was revealed to be a pseudonym for Arthur Green, the now well-established Jewish scholar, rabbi, and influential figure in the establishment of liberal Jewish practices (for the remainder of this article, Lodzer will be referred to as Arthur Green). One of Green’s contributions was Havurat Shalom, an experimental community embracing Jewish libertarianism and alternative religious values. Through Havurat Shalom, Green met another unconventional rabbi: Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, now also commonly referred to as ‘Reb Zalman,’ founder of the Jewish Renewal movement. Schachter-Shalomi became the leading figure for the Jewish liberation theology, and his influence for the entire Jewish community is monumental.
Both Green and Schachter-Shalomi referred to psychedelics as tools to shed light onto forgotten mystical traditions. The Jewish Renewal movement was an epiphany of that realization, and strove to reinvigorate stagnant traditions by reinventing modern Judaism through Kabbalistic, Hasidic, and musical practices. The lives of these two rabbis, their encounters with psychedelic drugs, and the paths these experiences led them on, are remarkable examples of how psychedelic drugs were an integral part of reinventing Jewish theology.
From their stories we can conjecture that psychedelics were a factor in influencing certain powerful, liberal Jewish ideologies, as well as helping their users to experience Jewish mystical theology in a new light.
The Psychedelic Experience and the Kabbalah
Kabbalah is Hebrew for ‘receiving’. It encompasses a set of teachings generally distinguished from the ‘traditional’ Jewish doctrine. The term came into use in 13th century Spain, where a group of Jewish esoterics and mystics began to separate themselves from the regular Jewish practitioners. To this day, hundreds of modern Kabbalah centers have opened up all around the United States and Europe and many well-known celebrities with (and without) Jewish heritage have picked up the practice of this mystical tradition.
In the 1968 Jewish Review Response, Green draws a parallel between his psychedelic experience and the teachings of the Kabbalah. For him, the foundation of the Kabbalist teachings became vividly real during his encounter with LSD. This is also the likely reason why he chose to write about a topic which, even during the period when LSD was legal, was considered contentious for the traditional Jewish community. Green analyzed parts of the psychedelic experience corresponding to Kabbalist teachings. Many of the elements recognized today as classic psychedelic trip experiences, represented vivid manifestations of Green’s own belief system.
“That which I thought was all terribly real just a few seconds ago now seems to be a part of a great dramatic role-playing situation, a cosmic comedy which this ‘me’ has to play out for the benefit of the audience,” he said.
In Kabbalah the only ‘true’ unchanging reality is the Ein Sof, ‘the Upper Reality,’ our ways of perceiving that reality are under constant change. For Green, psychedelics opened the illusionary nature of unchanging reality and of his own self. He wrote: “Seen from beyond, however, world and ego are but aspects of the same illusion. From God’s point of view, only God can be real.”
The Paradox of Change
The second aspect Green brought forth is the paradox of the fundamental change of everything about God, the simultaneous fundamental constancy of God, and the circular coexistence of impermanence and permanence: “All is becoming moving. I blink my eyes and seem to reopen them to an entirely new universe. One terribly different from that which existed a moment ago […] If there is a ‘God’ we have discovered through psychedelics, He is the One within the many; the changeless constant in a world of change.”
God’s Gender – Maybe Not Male After All?
Having strongly experienced a feminine presence during his trip, Green questioned the prevailing Judeo-Christian assumptions of God as male, underlying that ‘the father of the heavens’ only makes sense in a context where there is also ‘the mother.’ He argued that Judaism today has become trapped by the stationary image of God as a father figure. Subsequently, the Jewish Renewal movement has been especially focused on the revival of the female Goddess. For Green, the two sides of God were as attainable for ‘contemporary trippers,’ as they had been for the mystics of the past.
Discovering God’s Fluid Essence
Typically, descriptions of divinity in Kabbalistic writings are inconsistent and fully metaphorical. Green observed the parallel of the flow of beautiful images during his trip and the fluid Kabbalist descriptions of the nature of divinity, but warned against any static statements defining God. He argued that only symbolic and metaphorical descriptions could come close to the truth. Although the process in which the voyager creates a metaphor to describe the flow of images and information can be enjoyable, he warned against taking one’s own imagery too seriously:
“Indeed, this is one of the great ‘pastime’ of people under the influence of psychedelics: the construction of elaborate and often beautiful systems of imagery which momentarily seem to contain all the meaning of life or the secrets of all the universe, only to push beyond them moments later, leaving their remains as desolate as the ruins of a child’s castle in the sand. No metaphor is permanent, one can always ascend another rung and look down on the silliness of what appeared to be a revelation just minutes before.”
Exploring God’s Authentic Nature
What Green referred to as the “deepest, simplest and most radical insight of the psychedelic consciousness” concerns the authentic nature of God. He wrote: “This insight has been so terribly frightening to the Jewish consciousness, so bizarre in terms of the biblical background of all Jewish faith, that even the mystics who knew it well, generally fled from fully spelling it out.”All reality is at one with the Divine, and therefore every human, Jewish or not, is a part of God’s divine nature, he posited. According to Green, the very sanity of the Western civilization lies in the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, to separate between God and humans. Now that this fantasy had been shattered for the young Green, the rest of his life was bound to change. “If God and man are truly one … what has all the game been for?” he questioned.
Green’s testimony of his first psychedelic voyage is a remarkable historical account of how psychedelics can operate on the consciousness of a deeply religious individual. Green’s understanding of Kabbalah provided a strong framework through which the experience could fluidly mature, and although he voiced his concerns of autonomous explorations of God through psychopharmacology, he also believed both the psychedelic and mystical consciousness can be compatible.
In his 2016 biography, Hasidism for Tomorrow, he still states that taking LSD was an important step for his understanding of Hasidic and Kabbalistic philosophies. Such states would be achievable without the substances, he says, but acknowledges taking drugs and spontaneous mystical experiences as parallel processes.
The question arises: will the revolutionary qualities of the Jewish Renewal movement prove lasting, or will Judaism shake off Liberal influences and continue its static path? Just as the Jewish Renewal movement is often seen as a minor influence on a small current, the counterculture movement is often viewed as a failed attempt of revolution, as utopia slowly sinking into disappointment. Both Green and Schachter-Shalomi held their experiences with psychedelics as major influential points in their lives. As the research on psychedelic drugs and neurotheology continues to advance, perhaps the liberation theologies of a number of religions can be understood in a completely novel way.
According to Shalom Goldman, a professor of religion and Middle Eastern studies, the impact of the Jewish Renewal movement has left a permanent mark on contemporary Jewish life.
“Schachter-Shalomi’s Jewish Renewal still remains small in comparison to the larger Jewish denominations, but its influence is wide,” he said. “And many of those influenced would be quite surprised to read that in a way, it started with LSD.”
Editor’s note: this article is an adapted version of the essay, Tripping Rabbis: The Impact of Psychedelic Consciousness in the Revival of Jewish Mystical Tradition during the 1960s Counterculture Movement, by Johanna Hilla-Maria Sopanen, originally published in Psychedelic Press Volume XXI (2017).
In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: award-winning journalist, past guest and writer, and participant in one of the first ever clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression; and Mona Sobhani, Ph.D.: cognitive neuroscientist and the author of Proof of Spiritual Phenomena: A Neuroscientist’s Discovery of the Ineffable Mysteries of the Universe.
As Rex discovered the power of psychedelics through a clinical trial, she discusses a huge problem she discovered: that researchers are not preparing participants enough for the ontological shock they may go through in trying to match unexplainable happenings to a rigid framework (or match the normal to a framework that has suddenly shifted) – that while patients have support at the clinic, it all disappears when they return to normal life. She believes that all too often, researchers are doing only what is necessary to be able to continue to receive funding, push drugs through the FDA, and prescribe a pill.
And as psychedelics changed Sobhani from very constrained scientific thinking to being very open to new ideas about consciousness and spirituality, she learned that many scientists had similar stories, and that coming out of the psychedelic closet is sometimes the best thing to do to normalize these ways of healing.
They discuss the challenges of newcomers trying to explain their experience without having the necessary language; how we still don’t truly understand mental illness; how the DSM just clusters symptoms to fit ‘disorders’ into a box; how society has started pathologizing anything we find unpleasant (which of course, is a part of being human); Gary Fisher’s research on using LSD and psilocybin for schizophrenic children, why science needs to combine consciousness research and psychedelics research, and more.
Notable Quotes
“I think most people (neuroscientists, a lot of psychologists): we don’t like labels. We don’t like the DSM (especially neuroscientists). It doesn’t make any sense; all you’re doing is clustering symptoms and calling it a disorder. It’s useful, but it’s not explanatory. …Everyone’s so focused on ‘What are the brain mechanisms?’ but we do need to pull out and [ask]: ‘What are the societal mechanisms? How is our society not supporting [us]? Why do we see such an increase in some of these disorders? It’s a really big question.” -Mona
“There was a big move to get grief made into a pathology that was defined in the DSM so it could be treated with a pill. Grief. This was during COVID. So now grief is a pathology and you can be diagnosed with ‘grieving disorder’ and treated for it. …Anything that does not serve the machine is now considered a disease and disorder and has to be fixed, which is unfortunate because it takes us away from every piece of authentic experience that we could ever possibly have. And that is dehumanizing, profoundly.” -Erica
“Our whole society’s not built around humanity, even though we talk a lot about humanity. But there’s no humane principles in business or in society. Nothing is built around what the human needs, and that’s why, even in psychiatry, you see [that] grief or these normal human needs are pathologized. …We’re just cutting off parts of ourselves and not catering to being a human because we hate being human so much, apparently. We hate the things that are inconvenient about it, that it’s like we just have to cut it off and block it off and go forward. But you can’t do that; then you have all these coping mechanisms that emerge and then all these disorders, because you’re not functioning in an environment that supports you being what you are.” -Mona
In this episode, Joe interviews Greg Lake, Esq.: Co-Founder of the Church of Psilomethoxin, author, and trial and appellate attorney specializing in working with entheogen-based religious practitioners in establishing their right to consume their sacraments under existing religious freedom laws.
Psilomethoxin (4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine or 4-Hydroxy-5-MeO-DMT) was first synthesized in 2021 by mixing 5-MeO-DMT with psilocybin substrate, and after initial tests and months of user reports, it was deemed safe to use.* Lake co-founded the Church of Psilomethoxin in 2022 with the goal of shifting the paradigm of religion to primary direct experiences and individual beliefs rather than a dogma everyone must follow, with a big focus on community and discussing the ultimate questions of life together – with Psilomethoxin as the sacrament of choice. While he prefers member-to-member referrals, there is an application on the site, and he hopes to grow the church through linking people up regionally, (eventually) training people to facilitate, and partnering with a data collection company to gather real-world data on both Psilomethoxin and on why people are seeking out psychedelic churches in the first place.
He discusses several cases that brought us here and inspired his work; why he believes Psilomethoxin won’t be a target of the Federal Analogue Act; the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) and the need for states to establish similar state legislation; the importance of new churches establishing evidence in the public record; how much courts take sincerity into consideration; and the concept that, while we’re quick to think of the law as the enemy, courts often don’t want to go after churches – religion is a sacred and intimate thing, so who is the victim if a court brings a church to court that hasn’t harmed anyone?
*Update, April 17, 2023:Results from analytical testing released on April 12, 2023, reveal that there is no evidence to suggest the compound psilomethoxin is present in the samples of sacrament material the Church of Psilomethoxin is offering to their members online. The report, prepared by Samuel Williamson and Alexander Sherwood of the Usona Institute, states, “Psilocybin, baeocystin, and psilocin, were, however, unambiguously identified in the sample, suggesting that the claims regarding the biosynthesis of psilomethoxin may be misguided. The implications of these findings should be critically considered within the context of public health and safety.”
We are following this story at Psychedelics Today and are working to update our community with commentary from the researchers. Stay tuned to our social media channels for more on this topic.
Notable Quotes
“I think eventually the courts will come around to realize that where medical and scientific and religious and spiritual begin or end within this space is not crystal clear, because as we’re all aware, in the research, people, even in clinical settings, are having mystical, religious experiences. And then they see that that really, at many times, translates to positive outcomes. If people, even in a medical setting, can have a religious experience, well then where does ‘This is a religious exercise, this is not’ come into play?”
“One of our core beliefs is that in the peak entheogenic experience like 5-MeO, where you experience unitive cosmic consciousness, that’s basically our moral code – that once you experience unity with all, that tells you pretty much everything that you’ll ever need to know about how you should be treating other people, how you should be treating other beings, and how you should be treating the environment.”
“One thing I’ve learned (and I learned real quick working with these churches) is that, especially post-Covid, the community, for a lot of people, is just as, if not more healing and spiritual than the actual ceremonies.”
In this episode, David once again interviews a teacher and student from Vital, speaking with Grof-certified Holotropic Breathwork® practitioner, author, and developer of InnerEthics®: Kylea Taylor: M.S., LMFT; and therapist and Lead Consultant of psychological therapists at NEU: Shabina Hale.
This Vital Psychedelic Conversation is largely centered around ethics: how practitioners and facilitators define ethics; how InnerEthics® is involved; power dynamics; accountability; how the energy in a session is transferable and can bring up shadow elements for both parties; the need to be honest about one’s own scope of competence; the need for facilitators to have more experience both as a sitter and experiencer; and the very simple but most vital aspect of facilitation: considering how any decision made will affect the person on the psychedelic.
They also discuss having a code of ethics inspired by Indigenous culture and decades of underground use; how the psychedelic experience is affected by the ways it’s treated by its surrounding culture; how the practitioner becomes a protector; defining what is normal in a psychedelic experience (can you?); informed consent and the importance of explaining how roles will change throughout the process; and what the world would be like if everyone followed the same set of ethics.
Have you seen our commercial for Vital yet? We’re pretty thrilled with how it came out.
Notable Quotes
“We’re doing psychedelics in a different culture and a different community. I come from an Asian community that is often more tight knit and more tribal in its way of being, and mental health is seen differently within that community, care for elders is seen differently in that community. And so immediately, you’ve got these different rules and different structures that happen. And psychedelics obviously have come from some of those communities, but we don’t have the same communities anymore. We’re in the West. People will take them [and] they don’t go back to communities. They’re on their own. And that’s really isolating. …How do you keep people safe in some form of community when they go back into a society which is much more individualistic?” -Shabina
“I think it helps to just consider it all normal and not abnormal, because it’s only abnormal in the context of our society and our culture. What happened to Indigenous people in their psychedelic experiences was held; whatever it was was held by the culture, so it was not abnormal. It was normal in the extraordinary state of consciousness, and they assumed that it was healing and worked with it.” -Kylea
“You can see things that may not make sense on the outside, but to that person, on the inside, they really do make sense. And they make sense of it in a way that is far more profound than you could ever interpret or analyze or try and take apart.” -Shabina
“I think if people really find out what is theirs to do and do it, that is so satisfying that all these other things that cause problems for other people disappear.” -Kylea
In this episode, David interviews published researcher, social entrepreneur, and internationally recognized Indigenous rights activist: Sutton King, MPH.
In New York City alone, 180,000 people identify as Indigenous, Native American, or Alaskan Native, and this community is facing a disproportionate prevalence of mental health disparities, poverty, suicide, and PTSD due to intergenerational trauma from attempted genocide, forced relocation, and the erasure of culture and identity via boarding schools. Her purpose has become to bring light to what Indigenous people are facing due to being forced to live under a reductionist, individualistic Western approach that is in direct opposition to their worldview.
She talks about growing up being instilled with the importance of ancestry and tradition; why she moved to New York; how psychedelics helped her move through the trauma she felt in herself and saw so commonly in her family tree; and capitalism: how we need to move away from our private ownership, profit-maximalist, extractive model into a steward mentality inspired by the Indigenous voices and principles that have been silenced for so long.
And she lays out all that she’s doing to push these goals forward and help these communities: her work with the Urban Indigenous Collective, Shock Talk, the Indigenous Medicine Conservation Fund, Journey Colab and their reciprocity trust, and even her time last year at the World Economic Forum in Davos. We’re thrilled that she’ll be speaking at our conference, Convergence, this March 30 – April 2.
Notable Quotes
“One of the principles that I always was taught is that Indigenous peoples were always taught to be humble and not to be proud and not to be loud. But I have always felt like that was a way to keep us stagnant, to keep us complacent. So I would say I’m definitely a disruptor of this generation.”
“We are dealing with a burden of poverty, we’re dealing with so much chronic morbidity and mortality, as well and our chronic health. There is a number of different issues that we’re facing as Indigenous peoples. However, I’d also like to highlight how resilient we are as well. To be able to survive genocide, forced relocation, boarding school, and the poor socioeconomic status that many of us face [and] our families face, but continue to be a voice for our communities; continue to be on the front lines, advocating for missing and murdered, advocating for the protection of our land and demanding land back – I see a resurgence.”
“When you look at that skyline of that concrete jungle in New York City, I love to remind folks that it was the Mohawk ironworkers who risked their lives on that skyline, to be able to create the world we see around us. The paths that we walk today [and] the rivers that flow have always been used by the Indigenous peoples who came before us.”
“When we think about the economy and this market, it’s not capital that creates economic growth; it’s people. And it’s not this reductionist, individualistic behavior that’s centered at the core of economic good; it’s reciprocity, and being able to make sure that we have a market and an economy that’s inclusive; that’s bringing in all voices, that’s also considering all voices, all of the different parts of the ecosystem – not to silo people, but to bring everyone together, I think, will be the opportunity of a lifetime to really be able to really enact change.”
In this episode, Joe interviews Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and certified sex therapist, Courtney Watson. In just two years’ time, Watson grew from “Psychedelics are white people drugs” to opening a ketamine clinic to serve the marginalized communities she comes from. She shares the work she is doing through Access To Doorways; her Oakland-based non-profit whose mission is to bring psychedelic-assisted therapy to queer, trans, non-binary, gender non-conforming, Black, Indigenous, people of color, and two spirit communities.
This discussion is all over the map, from the platform of African traditional religion through the prospect of trauma healing for white supremacists, across BIPOC erasure in psychedelic research studies, and down into the realms of connecting to the spirit of entheogens from our pasts. Watson waxes on Black resilience; Hoodoo; how ALL plants are entheogenic; how conceptualization and talk in the psychedelic space often falls short of real action; ancestral veneration and ways to connect with one’s ancestral past; andthe concept of “spirit-devoid” synthesized compounds actually being the evolution of those plants’ spirits. She breaks down thoughtful considerations for queer and trans people in the psychedelic space, pointing out that while our society places too much emphasis on gender and sex, the acknowledgement of gender diversity and tearing down of the myths of hetero- and cisnormativity is hugely important. She believes that true access to these medicines can lead to true healing, which leads to love, justice, and actual equality. You can support Access to Doorways by making a donation here.
Notable Quotes
“Our people will talk to us. They will guide us. They will direct us. Especially for folks that don’t have ancestral practices in their day to day and haven’t had for generations; ancestors are starving for attention. They’re like, ‘Thank God you see us!’ Give them some light, give them some love, give them some attention, and they will open roads for you in all sorts of ways that you never knew were possible.“
“I think we also place way too much emphasis on gender and sex in this culture in this way that ends up stigmatizing the fact that there is gender diversity. …Holding all of this knowledge that heteronormativity is a thing and cisnormativity is a thing, and that these are not the default when we’re working with trans folks and folks that do not identify as heterosexual – that is really important.” “Healing could actually help shift what’s happening. It can help turn things in the ways that they need to be turned; in the ways towards love, towards justice, towards actual equality. It’s only when we are healed that we can actually do that; 1) because we have enough energy to be able to do that, but also because we have enough vision and foresight to be able to do that. The clarity of what it means to actually love only comes when we are healed.“
“There’s a lot of conversations, there’s a lot of talk, there’s a lot of conceptualizations, there’s a lot of dreams. But there’s not a lot of action. …So many people get stuck in the conceptualizing piece of it and the philosophizing piece of it that action gets missed. Access to Doorways is action. With $7000, we have given 4 subsidies. I know people that have raised ten times more than us and have not done that much. It is completely about doing what we say that we’re doing. It is completely about action towards healing.”
Courtney Watson is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and AASECT Certified Sex therapist. She is the owner of Doorway Therapeutic Services, a group therapy practice in Oakland, CA focused on addressing the mental health needs of Black, Indigenous & People of Color, Queer folks, Trans, Gender Non-conforming, Non binary and Two Spirit individuals. Courtney has followed the direction of her ancestors to incorporate psychedelic-assisted therapy into her offerings for folks with multiple marginalized identities and stresses the importance of BIPOC and Queer providers offering these services. Courtney has received training from the Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research at CIIS, MAPS, and Polaris Insight Center to provide psychedelic-assisted therapy with a variety of medicines. She is deeply interested in the impact of psychedelic medicines on folks with marginalized identities as well as how they can assist with the decolonization process for folks of the global majority. She believes this field is not yet ready to address the unique needs of Communities of Color and is prepared and enthusiastic about bridging the gap. She is currently blazing the trail as one of the only clinics of predominantly QTBIPOC providers offering ketamine -assisted therapy in 2021. She has founded a non-profit, Access to Doorways, to raise funds to subsidize the cost of ketamine/psychedelic-assisted therapy for QTBIPOC clients (now accepting donations!!!). When not in the office seeing clients or in meetings for the businesses she leads, she’s watching Nickelodeon with her kids, kinda working on her dissertation and more than likely taking a nap!
A progress update on the Oregon Health Authority, Measure 109, and religious liberty.
It turns out a whole lot of people care about religious and spiritual freedom issues surrounding psilocybin. A few weeks ago, Oregon had two public hearings on its proposed psilocybin rules on products, testing, and facilitator training. The overwhelming majority of the public testimony received was in support of religious freedom, affordable access, and the community container for psilocybin service. The support was so overwhelming during the first meeting that I tried to keep tabs on the second meeting. I counted 31 total comments that were received. 24 of those 31 – or 74%! – voiced support for the adoption of the entheogenic practitioners framework for safely regulating community-based practice. I do not believe a single person testified in opposition to its adoption.
Additionally, we are starting to receive written comments that people and organizations have submitted to the Oregon Health Authority (OHA).
David Bronner, CEO of Dr. Bronner’s Magic Soaps, has published his comments to OHA about the proposed rules, in which he recommends adopting the proposal in whole and even making some of the provisions around safe, affordable ceremony applicable to the entire M109 program. You can read his statement here.
Concisely: (1) Psilocybin in mushrooms or as synthesized substance provides access to many different states of human awareness, some powerfully facilitative of psychological and/or spiritual development; (2) The safety and probability of benefit are best ensured when preparation/education is provided in the context of a supportive relationship or community, either in a framework of mental health or of religious care; (3) When wisely integrated into our culture, psilocybin may well significantly decrease human suffering and promote the fuller realization of values such as peace, respect for diversity and compassion; (4) Access to this molecular tool for those who desire it, whether in medical or religious contexts, may be seen as a fundamental human right to explore our own minds.
“Currently, no state or federal law protects religious communities or practitioners who utilize psilocybin from being prosecuted by Oregon law enforcement. As charitable non-profit organizations, most if not all of these communities and practitioners lack the resources to hire attorneys to secure their rights. Measure 109 promised to welcome these communities into a legitimate legal framework. However, we believe that some of the proposed rules for implementing Measure 109 would substantially burden such communities and force them to operate illegally while remaining in the shadows.”
It also points out the following: “We note nearly half (49%) of the respondents to your Community Interest Survey indicated that their interest in accessing psilocybin under Measure 109 was for spiritual purposes. For context, the interest in spirituality ranks higher than interest in psilocybin for trauma-related issues (47%), addiction and substance use (17%), end of life psychological distress (10%), or “other” reasons (9%).”
It also offers some legal analysis to show that, based on the language of M109, Oregon has the legal rulemaking authority to protect religious practice. Here’s just one example:
“…Subsection (C) empowers the OHA to regulate the use of psilocybin products and psilocybin services ‘for other purposes’ deemed necessary or appropriate by the authority. The phrase ‘for other purposes’ indicates that the OHA may create rules that achieve purposes that are not explicitly stated in sections 3 to 129 or implied from them. This too means that OHA can create rules for the purposes of accommodating religious practice.”
You can view or download their full statement here:
“Affordable access to psychedelic healing is perhaps a wholly new equity issue that touches on racial, health, and spiritual equity. Equity means affordable access. Lack of affordability reinforces inequity that exists around race, gender, and class lines. We believe access to psychedelics to be a means of promoting spiritual equity, that we not create “spiritual privilege” as a function of socio-economic privilege. Equity also means culturally-sensitive. It must not impose Western medical paradigms on non- Western approaches to psilocybin.“
You can view or download their full statement here:
The Oregon Health Authority will be publishing its written summary of the public comments soon. Stay tuned to hear how Oregon responds to the public outcry to protect religious and spiritual communities!
For those who have been following closely, a revised edition of the proposal for the entheogenic practitioners framework can be viewed/downloaded here.
Please note that we are continually striving to improve upon this document and welcome feedback on how we can make aboveground entheogenic practice safe and affordable for all.
Additionally, Eyes on Oregon will be changing shape over the coming month, from a somewhat sporadic web series into a more traditional and more regularly-released podcast. I will be hosting and interviewing various people from the frontlines in Oregon, with Joe joining when he is able. With so much happening, there’s a lot to talk about, and we hope you tune in.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews Jason Grechanik; a tabaquero running plant dietas, an ayahuasca ceremony facilitator at The Temple of the Way of Light, and host of “The Universe Within” (@universewithinpodcast) podcast.
Grechanik tells his story and digs deep into the rich history of shamanism, herbalism, and Indigenous spiritual traditions that span the globe from Siberia and India to Peru. The unifying theme rests on bridging our cultural commonalities; recognizing the fundamental truths consistent across cultures and acknowledging how this seemingly lost knowledge has been kept, guarded, and passed down through epochs of change.
He unfolds the many layers of ayahuasca medicine work; examining plant intelligence, plant dietas, ways of seeing beyond yourself in the world of spirit, and how deep ayahuasca work can inspire gratitude and humility. And he discusses how group containers exemplify universal oneness; the value in both Western and Indigenous medicine; critiques for the current psychedelic renaissance; the power of breathwork; and the debate between traditional plant medicines and newer lab-derived substances – how everything has a spirit, even a mountain.
Notable Quotes
“I think it’s always really important when we’re talking about these experiences to also realize that they’re extremely personal; that there’s certainly archetypal experiences that these plants can invoke, but they’re very personal as well. And for some people, what they need is the opposite of that. They need to see beauty and love and their own self-worth and to have a very gentle experience. And then other people need to be thrown into the abyss to kind of shake themselves out of something. And I think that’s where that idea of plant intelligence comes in.”
“It’s not that far-fetched to think that these medicines were ancient, and that they were guarded even through apocalypses and catastrophic events and colonization. They kept these things, but why did they keep them? They kept them because they were seen as not only important, but actually something that was inseparable from humanity.”
“All of these things; there’s a time and a place for it. There’s benefits to certain things, there’s some drawbacks to certain ways of doing things, but ultimately it’s: what is going to be best for the patient? And that’s also something that’s fundamental to any holistic medicine, is realizing that there’s no panacea for everyone. We’re all different. We all have different body types, we have different stories, we have different physical ailments, [and] different mental stories. So how do we find the medicine that’s going to be best for us in this moment?”
Jason Grechanik’s journey has led him around the world in search of questions he has had about life. Early in his twenties, he began to develop a keen interest in plants: as food, nutrition, life, and medicine. He began learning holistic systems of medicine such as herbalism, Traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, and nutrition. That curiosity eventually led him to the Amazon where he began to work with plants to learn traditional ways of healing.
Jason came to work at the ayahuasca healing center Temple of the Way of Light in 2012. After having worked with ayahuasca quite extensively, he began the process of dieting plants in the Shipibo tradition. In 2013, he began working with maestro Ernesto Garcia Torres, delving deep into the world of dieting. Through a prolonged apprenticeship and training, involving prolonged isolation, fasting, and dieting of plants, he was given the blessing to begin working with plants.
He currently runs plant medicine retreats in Peru and travels abroad running dietas. He also works at the Temple of the Way of Light as a facilitator of ayahuasca ceremonies. In 2020, Jason created a podcast called “The Universe Within.”
After traveling the world and seeking knowledge for 15 years, a conversation with the spirit of iboga helped her realize that the highest teachings were all there in her own culture, and she could have healing relationships with plants in her own environment – that while it’s beneficial to learn other cultures’ traditions and have reverence for the spirit of other cultures’ medicine plants, you can achieve the same result at home, with plants you can be more connected to, and through a lens you may understand better.
She discusses her process and the importance of plant dietas; the idea of the “ethical warrior”; the types of energies she sees in different plants; how we’ve forgotten our connection to nature; what can help strengthen connections to plant energies; why she recommends starting a plant exploration with mugwort; the concept of ayahuasca helping you to die consciously; the power of energy fields; how we are the most amazing technology; and how, for many reasons, people are often carrying around attachments they’re not aware of.
Notable Quotes
“What I found was that if you approach our native plants and trees like the oak, alder, elder, etc. with reverence and in a sacred way – as you would with, say, a sacred ceremony with a psychedelic plant – if you approach them in this kind of reverential way, then they can be just as psychedelic.” “[You] just have to have this patience that the plant spirit knows exactly what you need when you need it and it’s working in the background even if you’re not conscious of it. But then you become conscious of it.” “I wouldn’t say we’re disconnected [from nature] because we are nature. It’s just that we’ve forgotten our deep connection. And so whenever we’re working with plants and trees (or any plants), it’s just a remembering – remembering who we are.” “These plants show you what you need to resolve within yourself. The plants don’t fix you. Ayahuasca doesn’t fix you, but she gives you a lot of homework.”
Emma Farrell is a plant spirit healer, geomancer, and author. Emma has held plant diet retreats and ceremonies in England and Wales since 2016. She holds a Master’s Degree in “The Preservation & Development Of Wisdom Culture & The Art Of Liberation” in the Tibetan Buddhist Mahayana Tradition, writing her thesis on “Understanding The Nature Of The Self Through Lucid Dreaming.” Emma spent 2 years at the Lama Tsongkhapa Institute in Tuscany studying under lamas and geshes including her refuge lama, Dagri Rinpoche. Emma has been initiated into Indigenous healing and magical lineages of the British Isles and the Ecuadorian Amazon, has trained in Geomancy, Pranic Healing, and Psychic Surgery. She lives in Somerset, UK, where she runs the Plant Consciousness Apothecary, a remote healing practice and WisdomHub.tv. Emma’s healing practice is grounded in quantum plant technology, which she believes is the healthcare of the future. Emma is the co-founder of Plant Consciousness, the ground-breaking London event about the conscious intelligent world of plants and trees.
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews professor of anthropology, author, and historian, Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D.
Together with his wife, Julie M. Brown, MA, he co-authored the book, The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity, where they present compelling anthropological arguments through early Christian frescoes and iconography of the major religion’s long-forgotten entheogenic history.
Brown discusses the historical and cultural use of entheogens, the major universities currently conducting clinical research, the importance of ethics in this space, the question of ‘will psychedelics survive success (in business)?’, the future of these substances in the fields of medicine and mental health, and rides on the back of giant bengal tigers up volcanoes during LSD journeys. He breaks down why it’s important to understand the role of psychedelics in religion and how they can play a large role in the returning of faiths to their mystical roots, and he highlights two important areas professionals ought to be well-versed in: the establishment of trust between the therapist and client, and the technique of guided imagery – evoking mental images and symbols to facilitate deep healing.
Brown teaches our CE-approved six-part course entitled “Psychedelics: Past, Present and Future,” and is one of the teachers of Vital, which begins on Bicycle Day, April 19th. Applications for Vital close on March 27th, so if you’re considering joining in, now is the time to act!
Notable Quotes
“The magic …is that it is the spiritual experience – the intensity of the mystical experience – that seems to be the kind of magical key that opens the door to healing, to what Grof calls the activation of that inner self-healing intelligence that psychedelics bring to the surface.”
“To borrow an American Civil Liberties Union phrase, ‘Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty’. And I think that eternal vigilance within the psychedelic community against all kinds of abuse by egomaniacal leaders or ‘phony holies,’ as Julie and I call them (people who want to put themselves out as a spiritual leader and they have no credentials for that); that’s going to happen. And we have to be vigilant for that so it doesn’t derail the good things that are happening.”
“Guided imagery along with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy could help heal even cancer, not just alleviate the psychological anxiety and depression.”
Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, author, and ethnomycologist. He is a Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University (FIU) in Miami, where he teaches an online course on “Psychedelics and Culture.” He also co-created the “Psychedelics: Past, Present, and Future” course for us. Professor Brown teaches and writes on psychedelics and religion as well as on psychedelic therapy. He is coauthor (with Julie Brown, LMHC, an integrative psychotherapist and also his wife) of The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity, 2016.
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews Michael Sapiro, PsyD: clinical psychologist, writer, meditation researcher, integrative coach, former Buddhist monk, Vital teacher, and now 3-time podcast guest.
They begin with what he feels is the most vital conversation we should be having now, then he discusses the idea of bringing psychedelics to prisons; his mental time travel work with The Institute for Love and Time (TILT); building an ecosystem where those with means pay full price to enable those with less money a discount; rebuilding trust in the medical community; and the difference between a diploma and real-world experience and proper training.
And he talks about the mystical experience, working with clients, and education: how so much more training is necessary than people realize, and how so much of the true education is learning how to vocalize an internal experience (and then integrating the positive aspects into everyday life). He talks about the complicated dynamics involved in what many see as a fantasy career; how he knows when to intervene; how he views “doing your own work”; whether or not the work can be gentle or joyous; the idea of joking during a session; his work with combat veterans and the intensity of 5-MeO-DMT; mainstreaming mysticism; and trusting that the universe has our backs.
Notable Quotes
“We want people to have real, internal experiences that they’re aware of and they can vocalize, and that is the actual education; not just the knowledge I’m giving them about what this drug does to the brain or how you identify something. It’s really: What is alive in you, how do you identify what’s alive in you, how do you use it in real time, and then how do you navigate those circumstances and change and grow? That’s the real learning process.”
“The mystical experience is a present moment experience where the universe unfolds in front, within, and around you, and then we integrate that into our human self. So Mike gets this amazing introduction to the universe through an experience and then it comes in and becomes insight and knowledge, and then hopefully practical application. So that’s where I think, in the end, we actually transform; is when that knowledge becomes integrated into the fabric of our own being [and] into our personality, and now Mike and the universe are more melded.”
“Zen is serious until you learn the universe is playful, and then you get to be kind of playful with it.”
“My hope is that all of us touch on the unconditional love that’s here for us, within us. And once you touch that, you can’t not offer it. You can’t not take care of other things. …This work gives us access to what’s already fundamentally true, and helps us bridge that with everything else.”
Michael Sapiro, PsyD, is a clinical psychologist, writer, meditation researcher, and former Buddhist monk. He is on faculty at Esalen Institute, is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and is completing a study on time travel, hope, and love with Dr. Julia Mossbridge of The Institute for Love and Time. Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, and futuremaking. He is the integrative psychologist at the Boise Ketamine Clinic where he offers Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy (KAP and KAT) sessions, and is an integrative coach with VETS, helping former Navy Seals and other special operations team members recover from combat exposure with psychedelic-assisted therapy. He hosts a syndicated radio program called Radio Awakened out of KRBX. His work is dedicated to personal awakening for the sake of collective and planetary transformation. He can be found at Michaelsapiro.com.
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews researcher, author, Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Greenwich, and Co-Founder and Director of the Breaking Convention conference: Dr. David Luke.
Luke talks about the importance of understanding the full range of psychedelic experiences; the difficulty in defining and measuring the transpersonal, how science has pathologized (and religion has demonized) the weird; the need for counselors to be open minded to the reality (and after effects) of their clients’ experiences; the problem of trying to apply science to something science can’t define; and how the most important thing we need is community.
And he talks about DMT and entity encounters: What could these encounters represent, or what could these entities be? And why do people who have these experiences have such massive shifts in belief afterward? While he can’t answer these questions, he shares a few stories of his own that led to prolonged, incremental ontological shock in his own life, including elves taking light from the sky and putting it into his chest, and meeting a being with “multiple snake body tentacles all morphing in a kind of fibonacci spiral covered in thousands of eyeballs.”
Reminder that each of the guests on Vital Psychedelic Conversations is a part of the teaching team for our 12-month Certificate course, Vital. We’re taking applications until March 27th, and classes begin April 19th!
Notable Quotes
“I would have these extraordinary experiences which I couldn’t quite explain, which begged me to kind of reconsider my worldview about the nature of reality. And just as I maybe started to incorporate that and go, ‘Okay, I feel comfortable with that now, that isn’t really so mind-blowing to me any more,’ …I’d have another experience which would be even more mind-blowing than that, and I’d have to try and get my head around it. And then on and on it went. …It’s a series of just shattering your beliefs and then just staring at them on the floor and wondering how to reconstruct them.”
“When your ‘boggle-threshold’ just gets exceeded, it finally finds some new equilibrium in a more expanded kind of worldview. But then that can be exceeded again. [There] doesn’t appear to be any apparent limit on how far out we can go with our beliefs. But just a word of caution: Keep an open mind, but not so much that your brains fall out.”
“Experiences are real. It’s a real experience, no matter what. If you are somewhere in another dimension encountering with impossible entities, then it’s still a real experience. It doesn’t mean the phenomena are real or the entities exist, but it’s a real experience. …And that has a profound effect. We see these profound effects and how [they shift] people’s beliefs, so they should be treated with that respect and seriousness.” “The very fact that the mystical experiences even are in the scientific parlance; [are] in the research agendas; [are] in some of the clinical research (not all of it); and being talked about is a massive shift. Basically, up until very recently, what we might consider a mystical experience was either demonized or pathologized. Now it’s completely done a 180, and it seems to be part of the solution for mental health problems instead.”
Dr. David Luke is Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Greenwich. His research focuses on transpersonal experiences, anomalous phenomena and altered states of consciousness, especially via psychedelics, having published more than 100 academic papers in this area, including ten books, most recently DMT Entity Encounters. When he is not running clinical drug trials with LSD, conducting DMT field experiments or observing apparent weather control with Mexican shamans, he directs the Ecology, Cosmos and Consciousness salon and is a cofounder and director of Breaking Convention: International Conference on Psychedelic Consciousness.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe and Kyle finally sit down with one of their all-time heroes: Stanislav Grof, MD, Ph.D., who joins them with his wife and collaborator (and co-creator of Grof® Legacy Training), Brigitte Grof, MA.
If you’re a fan of Psychedelics Today, you know that one of the major reasons Joe and Kyle met and decided to start this whole thing up was due to a mutual admiration for Grof’s work and a strong desire to spread it through the world of psychedelia. Due to Stan’s stroke a few years ago, we haven’t been able to have him on, but he has recovered enough to grace us with an appearance.
Stan and Brigitte talk about his stroke and recovery; developments in his concept of birth perinatal matrices; how they see breathwork evolving; how we get to the psychology of the future; the inner healing intelligence; and the need for more practitioners to have more training in non-ordinary states of consciousness. Stan also tells stories of how he discovered the power of breathwork and bodywork, and a funny story about missing a huge event at Harvard to instead relearn how to say “monkeys eat bananas.”
While the stroke set Stan back a bit in terms of speech, “the problem is in the cables, not the content,” as Brigitte says, and that is evident – as is Stan’s refreshing and humbling self-awareness and ability to laugh at his struggles. And what’s even more evident is the love between the two of them and how much Brigitte has helped him through this difficult time, and continues to help keep his knowledge in the forefront of this psychedelic renaissance (as we’re trying to do).
Notable Quotes
“This was the only situation where I could see what LSD is actually about, because once you get beyond the matrices, there is no real material substrate for the images. It’s basically just consciousness, and the question is how far the consciousness goes further back.” -Stan
“I believe that if psychiatry goes in the right direction (not where it is going now) that it ultimately should be done with non-ordinary states of consciousness (not necessarily just psychedelics; it could be breathwork or it could be working with people who have spontaneous experiences, spiritual emergency and so-on), …because some of the deeper sources; they are not reached with verbal talking and just suppressing symptoms. It’s very bad psychiatry. So I believe, if it [goes] in the right direction, that it’s going to be [working] with non-ordinary states of consciousness.” -Stan “I find something that is absolutely essential for breathwork …is that the psyche has the intelligence.” -Stan
“The processes are similar. …Certainly with psychedelics, it’s more visual and it’s longer, but what you could see is anything you can see in breathwork. So if you learn how to deal with this by breathwork training, …it’s an easy step to be a psychedelic sitter or starting to do psychedelics yourself. …When you know how to deal with breathwork and bodywork and everything, then you can deal with psychedelic sessions. It’s a very short, small step to move over to that area.” -Brigitte
“People can become artists who haven’t been before. It can awaken these abilities, or healing qualities, or people can maybe get some psychic experiences, or just become yourself more, whoever you are or whoever you’re supposed to be. I think that’s what it’s about.” -Brigitte
Stanislav Grof, MD, Ph.D., is a psychiatrist with more than sixty years of experience in research of non-ordinary states of consciousness. In the past, he was Chief of Psychiatric Research at the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, and Scholar-in-Residence at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, CA. Currently, he is Professor of Psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco, CA. In August 2019, his life’s work encyclopedia, The Way of the Psychonaut, was published, and the documentary film about his life and work was published as well: “The Way of the Psychonaut- Stan Grof and the journey of consciousness.”
About Brigitte Grof, MA
Brigitte Grof, MA, is a psychologist, licensed psychotherapist, and artist with 35 years of experience in holotropic breathwork. She was certified in the first Grof training groups in USA and Switzerland. She has led breathwork workshops and taught training modules in the US and in Germany. Currently she works in her private practice in Wiesbaden, Germany, and leads workshops and retreats.
Since April 2016, Stan and Brigitte Grof are happily married, live in Germany and California, and conduct seminars, trainings and holotropic breathwork workshops worldwide. In May 2020, they launched their new training in working with Holotropic States of Consciousness, the international Grof® Legacy Training (www.grof-legacy-training.com).
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews two authors and professors at the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco: Rick Tarnas and Sean Kelly, Ph.D.
While this is the first PT appearance for Tarnas – a huge name in the archetypal astrology field (and referenced often in our monthly Cosmic Weather Report series) – this episode is not focused on his work, but instead on the new book he and Kelly co-edited: Psyche Unbound: Essays in Honor of Stanislav Grof, which is a collection of 22 essays from the last 50 years about Grof and the impact of his work (a festschrift of sorts). The book features pieces from legends of the past like Joseph Campbell and Huston Smith, and big names in the field today like Michael Mithoefer and Fritjof Capra. It’s quite a beautiful book, and thanks to Synergetic Press, we’re actually giving away five copies signed by Stan Grof himself (click here!).
Tarnas and Kelly discuss what led to this project happening; why Grof’s work is so important; how Grof connected classic ideas with previously unthinkable concepts and realities; what the over-simplified term, “ego death” really means; and talk about their concern that standardized research is often leaving out the very integral spiritual dimension. They also discuss a different way of viewing the concept of “hanging up the phone,” and Kelly tells the story of a very powerful early psychedelic experience.
Notable Quotes
“What [Stan] found was that it was often the challenging experiences – the really difficult ones, the ones where one is encountering not only problematic or traumatic psychological issues, complexes, traumas from early life, etc. – it was bringing these up from the deep unconscious where they’re lodged in our body and in our psyche, and bringing them to consciousness and working them through, releasing them, releasing the emotions and the physical responses that have been bottled up in the psychophysical organism for decades. And that that was the very means by which a psychospiritual transformation could open up, and that one could thereby have both a healing experience and a deeper mystical experience of life.” -Rick
“She brought me outside and sat beside me as I lay in the snow for about three hours and was just with me. And that transformed what had been a kind of Hellscape where I was trapped in this world of mirrors (a ‘no exit’ situation) into one of just floating on this sea – a nourishing, milk-white snow ocean. But it wouldn’t have happened unless this compassionate being was willing just to sit with me and hold my hand.” -Sean “Stan’s attitude has been one of trusting whatever is coming up, whether it’s a difficult experience or a positive one. The positive ones can often serve as a kind of grounding and awareness that you can keep in the back of your mind, that when a difficult experience starts coming up, this higher unity is still waiting for you in some way. You can trust that the hard experience is not the only game in town.” -Rick
“If the humanities are colonized entirely by the methodological imperatives and constraints of the natural sciences, we’re essentially blocking out much of what it is to be a human being.” -Rick
Richard Tarnas is a professor of psychology and cultural history at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, where he founded the graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness. He teaches courses in the history of ideas, archetypal cosmology, depth psychology, and religious evolution. He frequently lectures on archetypal studies and depth psychology at Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, and was formerly the director of programs and education at Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California. He is the author of The Passion of the Western Mind, a history of the Western world view from the ancient Greek to the postmodern that is widely used in universities. His second book, Cosmos and Psyche, received the Book of the Year Prize from the Scientific and Medical Network, and is the basis for the documentary series, “The Changing of the Gods.” He is a past president of the International Transpersonal Association and served on the Board of Governors for the C. G. Jung Institute of San Francisco.
In this episode of the podcast (and episode 3 of Vital Psychedelic Conversations), Kyle interviews Kylea Taylor: M.S.; LMFT; Grof-certified Holotropic Breathwork® practitioner; Vital teacher; and author of several books, including her newest, The Ethics of Caring: Finding Right Relationship with Clients (which you can win a signed copy of here).
She discusses her past and what she’s doing now, from learning breathwork from the Grofs at Esalen; to working through (and with) her 5-year spiritual emergency; to her work bringing breathwork to a residential substance abuse recovery program; to her InnerEthics® program, which she developed after realizing how traditional ethics education didn’t come close to covering the intricacies of working with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
They talk about how much the psychedelic community undervalues the reciprocity and knowledge one can gain from sitting for someone else; how a facilitator’s simplest question to ask when looking to intervene is, “Who’s this for?”; the need for therapists to have their own experiences and learn the territory of the medicines they’re using, how our multiple selves complicate already-complicated relationships, and three tools likely not yet mentioned in this podcast: Angie Arrien’s naming ceremony, SoulCollage®, and Brainspotting.
Plus, they talk about having dreams about taking psychedelics (have you ever had one?), and Kyle tells the story of his psychic dream – or as this show notes writer believes, his “making-prank-calls-while-sleeping” incident (sleep-pranking?).
Notable Quotes
“Informed consent is completely different, because how do you describe what a person is going to go into if they’ve never been into it? They’ve never had an extraordinary state of consciousness, let alone experience with that particular medicine. So you can describe it, but do they understand it? And can they really make an informed consent?” “There’s exponential kinds of connections between the multiple selves, and it gets really confusing to sort out, so it’s another reason to know ourselves as well as we can, and to have experience in these states, and also to trust – when in doubt, go back to trusting the inner healing intelligence.” “Therapists, with psychedelic-assisted therapy, need to be properly prepared and experienced, and know their scope of practice, and know themselves. I think trainings are doing a good job and we’ll get better as we go, but I think experience is the part that it seems like people are going to have to take care of themselves. If they really want to do the best they can for their clients, then they need to do it. We need to do it. We all do.”
Kylea Taylor, M.S., LMFT developed and teaches InnerEthics®, a self-reflective, self-compassionate, approach to ethical relationship with clients that she is now teaching in psychedelic psychotherapy trainings. Kylea started studying with Stanislav Grof, M.D. and Christina Grof in 1984 and was certified by them as a Holotropic Breathwork® practitioner in 1990. She worked with Stan Grof and Tav Sparks as a Senior Trainer in the Grof Transpersonal Training throughout the 1990s, and worked for nine years in a residential substance abuse recovery program. She is the author of The Ethics of Caring: Finding Right Relationship with Clients, The Breathwork Experience, Considering Holotropic Breathwork® and is the editor of Exploring Holotropic Breathwork®.
In this episode of the podcast, fresh off the heels of the announcement of (and opening of applications for) our new 12-month certificate program, Vital, Kyle sits down for episode 2 of Vital Psychedelic Conversations; this week with two figureheads lending their knowledge to the course: Annie & Michael Mithoefer.
While also supervising and training therapists for MAPS-sponsored trials, the Mithoefers are probably best known for groundbreaking trials they’ve been involved in, including two MAPS-sponsored Phase II trials studying MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, a study providing MDMA-assisted sessions to therapists completing the MAPS therapist training, and a pilot study treating couples with MDMA-assisted therapy combined with Cognitive Behavioral Conjoint Therapy. They are also both Grof-certified holotropic breathwork practitioners, and huge proponents of breathwork in general.
They talk about why they connected so much with breathwork and how it cured Annie’s panic attacks; how they’ve used breathwork in their practice in conjunction with therapy; what trusting or following the process means (for the patient and facilitator); the concept of the inner healer (or “inner healing capacity”); touch and bodywork in therapy; how the communal, group process aspect of breathwork is inspiring ideas for group MDMA sessions; how we can best scale therapy; updates on new trials for 2022; and their best advice and biggest takeaways they’ve learned from decades in the field.
Notable Quotes
“It’s not that you never offer any direction or engage and help people if they’re stuck, it’s that that only happens in service of what’s already trying to arise spontaneously; that the point is to give plenty of time and encouragement for that process to just take its own path and unfold in its own way. …You may be offering quite a bit sometimes in terms of support and direction, but it’s only in service of what’s already happening.” -Michael
“Stan learned it by working directly with thousands of people with LSD in the beginning. And of course, other cultures (in some cases, for hundreds of thousands of years) have developed knowledge about wise use of these kinds of states. So it sounds a little new-agey or woo woo (‘Trust the process’ and the inner healing intelligence, you know), but it’s based on reality that people have observed for a very long time. And we see it. We just get it reaffirmed again and again.” -Michael
“People do get better with love and care. Sometimes it’s just that extra fifteen or twenty minutes at the end of a breathwork session when somebody is still kind of shaky, or sitting with them and having a meal after breathwork, or the extra times that you take with people. Supporting people: it really makes a difference.” -Annie “There’s something great about breathwork, to know that you can have these experiences without taking anything – just having that experience of: ‘Wow. These places are not as far away as I thought they were.’” -Michael
Annie Mithoefer, B.S.N., is a Registered Nurse living in Asheville, North Carolina, where she is now focused primarily on training and supervising therapists conducting MAPS-sponsored clinical trials, as well as continuing to conduct some MAPS research sessions in Charleston, South Carolina. Between 2004 and 2018, she and her husband, Michael Mithoefer, M.D., completed two of the six MAPS-sponsored Phase II clinical trials testing MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, as well a study providing MDMA-assisted sessions for therapists who have completed the MAPS Therapist Training, and a pilot study treating couples with MDMA-assisted therapy combined with Cognitive Behavioral Conjoint Therapy. Annie is a Grof-certified holotropic breathwork practitioner, is trained in Hakomi Therapy, and has 25 years experience working with trauma patients, with an emphasis on experiential approaches to therapy.
About Michael Mithoefer, M.D.
Michael Mithoefer, M.D., is a psychiatrist living in Asheville, NC, with a research office in Charleston, SC. He is now a Senior Medical Director at MAPS Public Benefit Corporation (MPBC). He is a Grof-certified holotropic breathwork facilitator, is trained in EMDR and Internal Family Systems Therapy, and has nearly 30 years of experience treating trauma patients. Before going into psychiatry in 1991, he practiced emergency medicine for ten years. He has been board certified in Psychiatry, Emergency Medicine, and Internal Medicine, and is a Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, and Affiliate Assistant Professor Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences Medical University of South Carolina.
Gathering as professionals in psychedelics has taken on new meaning. It’s more – a lot more – than just networking now.
In early December, Horizons: Perspectives on Psychedelics (an annual conference often referred to just as ‘Horizons’) re-emerged from the proverbial ashes of COVID-19; a pandemic that led to the dismantling of social connectivity and a general feeling like we were moving with momentum. With the pandemic came distance: social distance, emotional distance, and psychological distance. We stopped going to work together, we stopped learning together, we stopped moving and growing together. Reconvening at Horizons was therefore much more significant than just attending a regular conference.
Pandemic or not, the Horizons conference already played the role of a psychedelic sandbox where the psychedelic community convenes each year – a place where we get to see how widespread the community really is, and where each conversation is an opportunity to learn from our peers. It is a place where we can learn together, cry together, break bread together, and dance together. It is a place where we can be our most authentic selves, see others, and be seen. And it is a place where difficult conversations are encouraged to be had.
I heard a colleague explain that at other conferences, we are often introducing psychedelics to a new audience that sometimes lacks the capacity to grasp the shadow of psychedelic therapy. Contrarily, Horizons seeks to shed light on our shadow. It seeks to broaden our collective dreams of what is possible in the psychedelic space while learning from our past. By having those difficult conversations in front of 2,000 people, we get to grow collectively – as a community, and as a movement. And this year’s Horizons, more than ever, was an opportunity to rebuild a sense of collective effervescence.
Collective Effervescence
Sociologist Emile Durkheim coined the term “collective effervescence“as a “shared state of high emotional arousal related to intensification of emotions by social sharing, felt in religious and secular collective rituals, irrespective of their content (joyful feasts or sad funerary rituals), which empowers the individual.” Essentially, collective effervescence occurs when there is a shared sense of engagement with something bigger than the self, warranting a personal sense of empowerment. In developing the Perceived Emotional Synchrony Scale, psychologists Anna Wlodarczyk, Larraitz Zumeta, and their fellow researchers determined that some of the key conditions for collective effervescence to emerge are a “shared attention on one or more symbolic stimuli” and a sense of “intentional coordination or behavioral synchrony among the participants in a given gathering.” Ultimately, they argued that “the relevance of emotional synchronization in collective gatherings [is] conducive to strong forms of social identification, particularly the overlapping of the individual with the collective self.”
By blurring the lines between the individual and the collective self, Wlodarczyk and her colleagues suggested that a sense of collective effervescence ultimately “pulls humans fully but temporarily into the higher realm of the sacred, where the self disappears and collective interests predominate.” It is no surprise that a conference discussing the ethics and future of the psychedelic movement would incite a collective effervescence so strong that a perceived sense of emotional synchrony may occur, where there is indeed a “co-present other” that becomes closer and closer to a perceived sense of self.
This is how I want to see the psychedelic movement evolving and growing, with the collective interest dominating a sense of self. The uniqueness and radicalness of this movement will only come from our ability to enter into this shared sense of togetherness, and into a “higher realm of the sacred” and not to bypass it. How can we do this?
“Shadow work” is a term those in the psychedelic movement have heard countless times. In psychedelic healing, shadow work is not about eradicating the shadow. Rather, it is about shedding light on it and getting to know it deeply, so that when it shows up, it is not unfamiliar. By working with the shadow, we become better equipped to handle what may come up as a result of trauma. If we do not have a safe space to have these conversations, to be held in our confusion, and to be educated on our blind spots, then how can we move forward? How can we call ourselves a revolution if we are not rethinking the way we engage with our work each and every year?
Horizons is a place where we learn about cutting edge research in science and in the clinic, new models for approaching business, and cultural matters. But more importantly, it’s an opportunity to converge as a community and reflect on the previous year together, shedding light on our blind spots and engaging in shadow work to build a sense of collective effervescence and a unified goal. While there were many great presentations this year, three in particular really encapsulated all of this.
Doing the Work with Laura Mae Northrup
Without a doubt, the most impactful talk of the weekend for me was from marriage and family therapist, Laura Mae Northrup, who, in light of recent events, spoke about sexual misconduct in the psychedelic space. Shivers ran down my spine as she powerfully proclaimed these words into the microphone: “Mental health clinicians self-report engaging in sexual violations with their clients at rates of 7-12%. We don’t have data on corresponding rates of psychedelic therapies, but we have no reasonto believe it would be any less than our non-psychedelic counterparts.” She spoke with conviction, with grace, and emotion. She had us all in tears, reflecting on the very real fact that the clinicians who are at a higher rate of sexually abusing their clients are male clinicians who were sexually abused as kids.
Northrup highlighted that we are in a cycle of abuse; that healing trauma is painful, and without doing so effectively, we will continue to cause harm to others. She did not name names, and she did not stand on that stage building a pedestal for herself (regardless of how compelling it seemed, as she noted). Instead, she served her community and said what needed to be said. If there was one takeaway from her powerful talk, it was that “we need to heal ourselves.” She took what was frantically scrambling around everyone’s minds and hearts, and put it into powerful and sensical words. She made it make sense.
Tears continued to flow down my face as Horizons founder Kevin Balktick approached the podium, applauding Northrup for the outstanding courage it took for her to get on that stage and speak from her heart. He then declared that sexual abuse and misconduct should not be a “women’s issue”; that it always has, and certainly should be, a men’s issue as well.
Eradicating the Promise of a “Miracle Cure” with Juliana Mulligan
The second presentation that captivated my attention was from ibogaine treatment specialist, Juliana Mulligan, who spoke of her experience of being sent to jail for using heroin, being thrown on the streets in the middle of Bogota, Colombia, and finally seeking refuge in what she was told was a miracle “cure” for opioid dependence. She then shared her own horrifying journey of getting off of opioids by going to an ibogaine center that did not have the proper protocols in place.
She brought about gasps in the crowd when she told us that the clinic did not have a heart monitor and that they gave her twice the safe dose of ibogaine – certainly enough to kill anyone, she clarified. When the clinic noticed her abnormal EKG readings and decided to seek professional and medical help, she was refused by three hospitals largely due to a lack of understanding on how to handle her situation, being overwhelmed with patients, and not believing that someone her age could be having a heart problem. Finally, when the fourth hospital almost turned her away, she had her first of six cardiac arrests due to her high dose of ibogaine. She explained that she remembers very little about her experience on ibogaine, but that she woke up with a tiny fraction of the usual opioid withdrawal symptoms, the feeling of a huge weight lifted from the guilt and shame of years of substance use, and a newfound clarity around her life’s mission.
Despite her experience at this ibogaine clinic, Mulligan has not turned her back on the promise of ibogaine in treating opioid dependence. In fact, she has dedicated part of her career to ensuring that people are equipped with the tools and knowledge on how to choose an ethical and effective ibogaine clinic – something she realized was necessary due to the many vulnerable people who don’t know what to look for when choosing an ibogaine clinic. Often, people do not take the time to learn about the proper protocols needed to provide this treatment, with many acting out of desperation in an attempt to “fix” their issues as quickly as possible. Her main point was to remind us of the dangers of selling ibogaine as a “miracle cure,” and how damaging it can be for people to have the idea that Ibogaine will fix their issues overnight.
Speaking Softly in Recollection with William Leonard Pickard
Finally, ex-convict William Leonard Pickard held us all in a state of awe as he eloquently and captivatingly shared his story of spending 21 years in prison for allegedly producing 90% of the United States’ supply of LSD. He spoke softly, and took long pauses between his sentences, his descriptive tone allowing me to truly visualize the scene where a CIA agent pointed a rifle at his forehead while uttering, “I’m going to blow your brains out.” He told us about the violence that occurred in prison, and how he became desensitized to fights and killings while he would quietly sit and eat his lunch. He showed us photos of a prison cell, and told us about how he fell in love with American Literature, and that without that – coupled with deep meditation, he may have not survived.
Pickard reminded us all why we were sitting in that room and why we need to change the way psychedelics have been viewed since the 1970s. The majority of the people in that room are privileged enough to never experience going to jail for psychedelics, and getting a glimpse into that reality reminded us why rewriting the psychedelic script in America is critical.
Composting Emotions into Inspiration
In exploring rituals where collective effervescence is powerful, Wlodarczyk and her team discuss the way in which both positive and negatively valenced rituals ultimately lead to a shared sense of emotion and heightened well-being. Indeed, what truly comes through in these rituals is “the creation of a positive emotional atmosphere in which grief, sadness, anger, and fear are transformed into hope, solidarity, and trust.”
Contextualizing these experiences –sexual misconduct in psychedelic healing, the wrongful advertisement of ibogaine as a miracle cure, and the harsh realities of the drug war and the American justice system – provides our collective community with the opportunity to transform these emotions of grief, sadness, anger, and fear into a shared sense of solidarity. We were provided with the opportunity to compost these moments of disappointment and turn them into something productive, where the unified goal of ethically bringing psychedelics to modern American lives empowers each and every one of us, both on a collective and individual level. This is how we can heal and move forward as a collective movement.
These three presentations are simply a glimpse into the moving stories that were told on that stage. The breadth of content shared allowed us the opportunity to reflect on what the world could look like once we systematically dismantle the war on drugs, and what is effectively involved in doing so: the clinical trials for which researchers have put their careers on the line, the endless volunteer hours that policy makers and lawyers have been putting toward changing legislation, the repairing of relationships with Indigenous communities through the work of the Native American Church and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the importance of doing our own work in order to help others heal from their trauma, and the dangers of presenting psychedelics as a magic bullet.
There are many pathways to attain psychedelic healing. Horizons provides a space for the entire range of themes that ought to be considered in bringing psychedelics to the modern world. In order to achieve this goal, we must do so collectively. We must reimagine what it means to be successful, and we can only do this by building a collective sense of self. To do this, we must continue to have these conversations, processing fear and anger into hope and solidarity. If we want to see the psychedelic movement radically change the world we are living in, we must face the music by continuing to have these difficult conversations and seek to elevate collective effervescence.
In this episode of the podcast, Kyle sits down with Joe Tafur, MD, for the first episode in our new weekly series, “Vital Psychedelic Conversations.”
Vital is the name of our new 12-month certificate program launching in April, and each episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations will feature one of the teachers we’ve been honored to be able to include in the program. While the official announcement with all the important details is coming next week, we’re pretty pumped about Vital and wanted to start this new series today!
Joe Tafur, MD, is a family physician and author who was trained in ayahuasca curanderismo at the Nihue Rao Centro Espiritual in Peru. He also is a co-founder of the Church of the Eagle and the Condor, which is currently pursuing legal protection for ceremonial ayahuasca use.
He discusses the frustrating application process for the church; the idea of the substance only being a part of the experience; how a truly transpersonal moment seems to make people start asking about the sacred; the scientific community’s struggles with the transpersonal; soul retrieval; the interconnectedness of all things; and he makes an argument for allowing religious tokens in therapeutic containers. And he talks about what we can learn from Indigenous tradition and their holistic and health-focused mindset, connection to nature, relationship with substances, and embrace of spirituality.
Through the Church of the Eagle and the Condor, Tafur is running a webinar series to speak to and learn from Indigenous elders called “Wisdom of the Elders.” The first is next week, January 27th, and features Diné Elder Josie Begay-James.
Notable Quotes
“People are with this kind of direction: they’re partying, they’re having a great experience, maybe making some big memories, maybe they are shifting, some people are growing, maybe not. But then, on this other side, you have this high percentage of people really turning around decades-old mental health issues. So that’s a big, big difference. So what’s going on in those sessions? And what’s going on around those sessions? The focus has been the substance, the substance, the substance, the substance. They think they can sell it, whatever they want to do with it. But that other meat of what’s happening with people – there’s a lot of mysterious elements in that space.”
“The ones who are doing the psychotherapy with ketamine, I find, over and over again, that they become very curious about the sacred. …Those people want to know about people that have experience with this, from that perspective (from a spiritual perspective), because you can tell them: ‘These molecules did this and these neural patterns did that,’ but they’re not satisfied. It doesn’t answer the questions that they’re seeking, about: ‘What do I do with that?’” “Why does it have to be separate? Why would it be separate? It’s not separate, I don’t think, in sports. I don’t think they try to get people to dissociate from their intuition and their feeling. I think they encourage it strongly. …They’ll say, ‘He’s possessed!’ They’ll say a person is ‘inspired.’ Similarly with music; you wouldn’t have that ‘I’m not going to try to feel into my soul while I’m on stage.’ It’s actually the opposite, is the discussion quite often. Isn’t that true? Isn’t that what sells tickets all over the world? Isn’t that what distinguishes the big ticket sellers in general, that they’re able to tap into something that is transpersonal?”
“We have to deal with the transpersonal, not only for the sake of expanding ourselves and to be better people or to grow, but it’s a matter of health. That’s the reason.”
Joe Tafur, MD, is a Colombian-American family physician originally from Phoenix, Arizona. After completing his family medicine training at UCLA, Dr. Tafur spent two years in academic research at the UCSD Department of Psychiatry in a lab focused on mind-body medicine. After his research fellowship, over a period of six years, he lived and worked in the Peruvian Amazon at the traditional healing center Nihue Rao Centro Espiritual. There he worked closely with master Shipibo healer Ricardo Amaringo and trained in ayahuasca curanderismo. In his book, The Fellowship of the River: A Medical Doctor’s Exploration into Traditional Amazonian Plant Medicine, through a series of stories, Dr. Tafur shares his unique experience and integrative medical theories. After the release of his book in 2017, Dr. Tafur has been spending more time in the U.S. and with his spiritual community in Arizona, has co-founded the Church of the Eagle and the Condor (CEC). This spiritual community is dedicated to promoting the spiritual unity of all people with the Creator through the practice of traditional Indigenous spirituality and sacred ceremonies. The CEC is currently pursuing legal protection for their practice of sacred Ayahuasca ceremony. Dr. Tafur is also a co-founder of Modern Spirit, a nonprofit dedicated to demonstrating the value of spiritual healing in modern healthcare. Among their projects is the Modern Spirit Epigenetics Project, an epigenetic analysis of the impact of MAPS MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Their first results have now been submitted for publication. He is currently a fellow at the University of Arizona’s Center for Integrative Medicine. Additionally, he is involved the Ocotillo Center for Integrative Medicine in Phoenix, Arizona. To learn more about his work you can also visit Drjoetafur.com.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe revisits the topic of religion and psychedelics touched on last week in PT280, but this time, much more in depth, with two guests of different religions: Rabbi Zac Kamenetz and The Rev. Hunt Priest.
Kamenetz and Priest both had catalyzing psychedelic experiences as participants in research studies, and after gaining interest, noticed that their religions weren’t referenced much in psychedelic literature. They’re each working to build a broad network of leaders and academics who are Jewish (through Zac’s website, Shefa) or Christian (through Hunt’s site, Ligare) to act as psychedelic societies and encourage more people to buy in, be more open, and embrace the renaissance. Do these communities know enough to properly frame and integrate their experiences when they add psilocybin to Seder? What are the best protocols in which to authentically blend in religious tradition and lessons? Is their true purpose to help others use religion to explain mystical and psychedelic experiences? Or use mystical and psychedelic experiences to explain religion?
They also discuss the differences between how Christianity and Judaism talks about psychedelics; the Jewish Psychedelic Summit; why Christianity seems to be so far behind; the minimization of mystical experiences; the concepts of spiritual harm reduction and spiritual literacy; the need for accountability and “bumpers” in religion; Rick Strassman, DMT, and prophecy; how religious tokens and symbols in psychedelic-assisted therapy can traumatize or influence an intended experience; what religions can do in situations of spiritual emergency; and why serving others should be part of the integration experience.
Notable Quotes
“There is a very vibrant Christian conversation. It’s just quiet. It’s too quiet, really.” -Hunt
“When more people are having transpersonal experiences – ‘The All! The Nothing!’, them existing beyond their body and their consciousness – people are going to be looking for answers to their questions, more questions to their questions, and then these traditions that sadly, people are walking away from for all sorts of reasons (maybe good reasons, even), that we’re going to have to then present meaningful models, responsive models to their quandaries. That, really, I feel, is the heart of the work.” -Zac “It would probably have taken 10 more years of Vipassana meditation to get to where I was six hours into my psilocybin experience. And people will say, ‘Well that’s a spiritual shortcut.’ And I mean, at least in Christianity, we say none of this comes because we work hard for it; it comes as a grace and a gift, and take it. Take it and go with it, and then change your life because of it.” -Hunt
“This is multi-prong, multi-experience, multi-community [thing]. It’s not going to just be the psychological community, it’s not just going to be the hospice/end-of-life community, it’s not just going to be the party community, it’s not going to just be the religious community. It’s going to be all of us, I hope, moving forward together for the healing of the world.” -Hunt
“It’s interesting to figure out the ways in which you integrate these plants and fungi and substance/compounds into Jewish ritual, but I think there’s also, then, the opportunity to think about, like: Okay, what’s the role of preparation here? Like, if I steep myself in Jewish wisdom, is a ‘Jewish experience’ going to emerge? …The idea of set and setting then becomes a really interesting one. What is a Jewish mindset and are we actually interested in trying to fill people with content in order that they have an experience come out? …We don’t want, necessarily, to fill people with Hebrew music or words or ideas. We want the medicine and the inner healing intelligence to do that work. And then, really, what is the role of clergy there? Just to witness, just to support? ‘What are we doing and whose experience is being had?’ I think, is a really important question.” -Zac
Zac Kamenetz is a rabbi, community leader, and aspiring psychedelic-assisted chaplain based in Berkeley, CA. He holds an MA in Biblical literature and languages from UC Berkeley and the Graduate Theological Union and received rabbinic ordination in 2012. As the founder and CEO of Shefa, Zac is pioneering a movement to integrate safe and supported psychedelic use into the Jewish spiritual tradition, advocate for individuals and communities to heal individual and inherited trauma, and inspire a Jewish religious and creative renaissance in the 21st century.
About Hunt Priest
Hunt Priest is an Episcopal priest and the founding Executive Director of Ligare: A Christian Psychedelic Society, a non-profit network of Christian leaders educating themselves and those they lead about the intersection of open-hearted Christianity and the Psychedelic Renaissance. A participant in a psilocybin study in early 2016, he had two life-changing mystical experiences under the care of a research team. His encounters with psilocybin opened him to the healing and consciousness-raising power of psychedelic medicines and changed the landscape of his work. Hunt believes the healing power of psychedelics should be in the toolkits of all who are healers of bodies, minds, and souls, and can’t wait to provide access for legal, safe, and guided experiences in a Christian setting. This past April, Hunt took an extended break from full-time parish ministry to expand his priesthood out into the emerging psychedelic landscape.
In this episode of the podcast, Joe interviews D.C.-based attorney, Executive Director of the Association of Entheogenic Practitioners (AEP), and Guardian of the Temple of Mother Earth, Danny Peterson.
He discusses the work of the AEP, which he describes as similar to a bar association for practitioners in this space (facilitators, shamans, guides, sitters, etc.), with a code of ethics, best practices guide for facilitation, and efforts to continually improve the psychedelic-assisted therapy experience through what he calls “community building practicums.”
They talk about psychedelics, religion, and freedom in the United States; where we are in the “forming, storming, norming, performing” process; how much culture has changed in the last year due to Covid and a blossoming virtual world; Phish; the iron law of prohibition; the need for 10,000 entheogenic churches; and the classic questions we ask ourselves when analyzing our most powerful experiences and the communities we experience them in: Is this religious? Is this spiritual?
This is a bit of a hybrid Solidarity Fridays episode as well, with Joe and Kyle having a brief chat first. As one should in an episode coming out on New Year’s Eve (Happy New Years, everyone!), they reflect back a bit on the year and look to the future, with two brief, but huge announcements: 1) They just recorded a podcast with Stan and Brigitte Grof (!!!); and 2) In March, Psychedelics Today is launching a 12-month certification program called Vital. You’re going to hear a lot more about it, but learn more and join the waitlist now at vitalpsychedelictraining.com.
Notable Quotes
“[I] learned about the UDV and Santo Daime cases that had gone through the federal courts and came to be of the opinion that while the people who are clearly protected by religious freedom in the United States is a pretty small group, the people who should be protected is much bigger than that. And that is the community that I’ve been seeking to serve.”
“I might be wrong in this – I don’t know the Consciousness Medicine community. But merely watching this situation from a distance, something that’s interesting to me about this moment in time is that it doesn’t seem that any part of the conversation is about whether anyone is likely to be arrested for being involved in psychedelic work. That is the unusual thing here. We’re talking about this openly and it’s not about whether the DEA is going to come knocking.”
“The initiative (81) didn’t so much change the law in D.C., as it recognized what’s already happening. It was already the lowest law enforcement priority to deal with entheogenic plants and fungi. Now we’re saying that it is and it should be. That’s what we’ve said as a city. And in a way, I guess that’s the analogy that I’m going for here: This is already religious, now we’re just saying so.”
“Music, psychedelics, [and] community at the same time: How can we see that as not a religious or spiritual activity? …I’m not trying to get Phish a religious exemption or anything, but there’s something there that’s under-discussed and under-investigated.” -Joe
Danny Peterson is a founding member and the Executive Director of the Association of Entheogenic Practitioners (aep.community), a religious professional organization and mutual aid society that promotes safe access to entheogenic experiences. In 2014, Dan began participating in entheogenic ceremonies to address lifelong struggles with depression. He has since completed over 200 hours of training in entheogenic practice and currently serves as a Guardian of the Temple of Mother Earth in Washington, DC. Dan is also licensed to practice law in Maryland and the District of Columbia, and has served as an outside general counsel to emerging organizations for more than ten years.
In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: writer and participant in one of the first ever clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression.
She talks about her complicated path to becoming part of the study; the study itself; her frustrations with the clinical and dehumanizing aspects of research; and how integral communication, community, and integration were toward her healing. They discuss the importance of self-analysis and doing self-work under the right circumstances: Are you too close to your everyday environment? Who or what is causing you to feel this way? Are you in a place in life where you can be ok with being destabilized for weeks or months?
And she tells three different stories of spontaneous mystical experiences; tears in the fabric of her universe where the lines between reality and dreams were blurred, including one where a friend’s deceased mother (who she had never met) spoke to her in a dream about her own family. And this leads to a discussion about the DSM, psychiatry, and how we don’t know anywhere near enough about schizophrenia or these strange brushes with the mystical.
Notable Quotes
“I just assumed, for no reason other than people encouraging me to take psychedelics, that I don’t need to take that stuff because I see horrible things when I’ve got a migraine anyway — why would I want to go there? Of course, ironically, I learned once I got to Hopkins, that in fact, that probably would have helped me.”
“[In Europe,] doctors cannot get their minds around the idea that an American (where ‘everybody has money’) has to leave the country to get treatment and care for a medical condition. This has to be gone around and around and around, both in England and in France, more times than you could possibly imagine. They cannot get their heads around it.” “I can’t stress enough that the integration part, ideally, is done where there is community involved. …This is about community and coming away from that horrible isolation of depression back into contact with the rest of the world in a constructive and more advanced and more clear-thinking and more elevated (if you want) way. …In some ways, it’s more important than taking the drug. The drug is an accelerant. The drug does its job, but the drug is not the point. The process is the point.”
Erica Rex writes about science, environment, mental health, climate, and the forces shaping all of them. She’s written for The New York Times, Scientific American, The Times (UK), and is the recipient of a National Magazine Award. She was a subject in one of the first clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer related depression in 2012. Her book-in-progress traces the story of psychedelics through the lens of her quest to heal from childhood trauma. Ms Rex’s unique perspective shows how psychedelic medicine provides a pathway out of trauma, a light at the end of a very long tunnel.
What is the ‘Anima Mundi’ and how can it help us understand psychedelic experiences?
This is part of our column ‘Psychedelics in Depth‘ which defines and explains depth psychology topics in the context of psychedelics.
Once upon a time, people saw nature as vividly alive, full of gods, spirits, and beings that existed beyond the realm of human culture. Nature was ensouled, and the earth was animate. In the tradition of depth psychology, this concept is known as the Anima Mundi: the Soul of the world. In this article we will explore the interplay between psychedelics, the earth, and the spirit of place.
Can psychedelics put us in touch with a more-than-human intelligence that emanates from the earth itself? Do certain places carry particular energies or “souls” which psychedelics might allow us to perceive? Finally, what role can psychedelics play situated at the crossroads of nature and culture, especially in this time of dire ecological collapse?
Ask yourself: have you ever felt immersed in some ineffable communication with an aspect of the natural world during a psychedelic experience? Have you ever felt uneasy upon setting foot in certain places, yet unable to say why? Have you ever felt a powerful sensation upon visiting an ancient redwood grove, a stone circle, or one of the earth’s many sacred sites?
Truth be told, there is an extremely high likelihood that most long-time users of psychedelics would report at least one instance of the natural world having a profound influence on their trip in ways that defy rationality.
But before we go any further, a story.
Land Memory and Psychedelics
I work as a psychedelic therapist with MycoMeditations, a legal psilocybin retreat based in Jamaica. I’m fortunate to get detailed insights into a vast array of psychedelic experiences on an almost weekly basis.
During one retreat, a woman shared about a repetitive vision she had during her trips. She explained how, on each mushroom journey, she heard a certain kind of “tribal music”—drumming and singing in an incomprehensible language. During her third and highest dose, she found herself near a campfire glimpsing the “people” responsible for this ecstatic sound. She described them in detail, especially their uniquely pointed heads. She had no explanation for this.
As it happens, the Taino, the Indigenous people of Jamaica and the wider Caribbean, practiced what is known as “cranial shaping,” a method of elongating the skulls of their newborns. This practice, done by many Indigenous peoples of the Americas, was a distinguishing cultural marker of the Taino, who lived in greatest numbers on Jamaica’s south coast—exactly where MycoMeditations happens to be based.
In fact, the very stretch of coast where our retreats occur, an area now called Treasure Beach, is known as an archaeologically rich zone for Taino pottery, confirming this region as one of, if not the most significant ancient centers for the Jamaican Taino population.
As a colleague informed me, guests having visions of “pointy-headed people” was not something new to her. She was utterly unfazed by this seemingly inexplicable synchronicity.
What do we make of this? Despite mounting research, there is still a healthy dose of mystery lingering about these plants and molecules. To discard her experience as meaningless, or simply ‘coincidence,’ either briskly diminishes its significance and robs her of potential avenues for meaning-making—the very antithesis of psychedelic therapy and integration—or reveals something concerning about the practitioner themselves.
No psychedelic facilitator worth their salt attempts to dictate the meaning behind someone’s experience.
Depth psychology would have us take seriously these moments of exchange between the human psyche and the living earth, and encourage us to lean into these liminal crossroads of perception. For if myth and medicine tells us anything, it is that the most fertile ground for growth is where our domesticated understanding of life ends and the wild unknown of the forest begins.
The Anima Mundi and the Ensouled World
Yet, why is it that the idea of a tree or a river or a gust of wind having something to say to us is so unsettling? Why is the notion of an ‘inanimate object’ having some claim on our senses so confronting to the modern Western psyche?
Author and professor of history, Theodore Roszak, who coined the term ecopsychology (along with counterculture, interestingly enough,) wrote in his book Voice of the Earth, “If we could assume the viewpoint of nonhuman nature, what passes for sane behavior in our social affairs might seem madness. But as the prevailing reality principle would have it, nothing could be greater madness than to believe that beast and plant, mountain and river have a ‘point of view.”
To believe that the natural world has a point of view, or is ‘ensouled’, as archetypal psychologist James Hillman explored in his book, Re-Visioning Psychology, is to understand that rocks and waterfalls contain an equally relevant quality of psyche that allows for avenues of communication between our two seemingly disparate beings.
The idea that the world itself has a Soul, and is therefore an animate, even conscious being, is one of the most radical notions within the depth tradition. Carl Jung deemed this old idea the Anima Mundi: a concept with rootsgoing far back into esoteric religious and mystical traditions such as hermeticism, gnosticism, kabbala, and of course countless Indigenous traditions across the world.
Tracing European culture’s disconnection from this ancient notion of the ensouled earth, Jung wrote in his Collected Works Volume 11, “The development of Western philosophy during the last two centuries has succeeded in isolating the mind in its own sphere and in severing it from its primordial oneness with the universe. Man himself has ceased to be the microcosm and eidolon [image] of the cosmos, and his ‘anima’ is no longer the consubstantial scintilla, spark of the Anima Mundi, World Soul.”
Embracing the notion of the Anima Mundi can help us navigate and integrate psychedelic experiences that blur the culturally constructed lines that our society would have us believe separates humanity from the living earth.
In this regard, the Anima Mundi and depth psychology asks us to question many pillars of European thought, specifically the legacy of Enlightenment thinkers like René Descartes, whose work marked a decisive turning point by cleaving apart any remaining threads of pagan belief, which connected European consciousness to the living earth.
The Research: Nature-Relatedness and Psychedelics
If generations of ceremonial plant medicine use by Indigenous people across the globe was not sufficient evidence, current research shows us that psychedelics can foster a greater sense of connectedness to the natural world. A 2019 study by Kettner et al. concluded that a sense of “nature relatedness was significantly increased 2 weeks, 4 weeks, and 2 years after a psychedelic experience”, and that the frequency of lifetime psychedelic use was positively correlated to a baseline sense of nature relatedness in healthy participants.
Concluding their research, Kettner et al. wrote: “With the loss of self-referential boundaries being a defining characteristic of ego-dissolution experiences under psychedelics, as well as experiences of awe in nature, it may be that the loss of perceived boundaries between the self and the other may in turn facilitate an expanded perception of self/nature continuity or overlap, reflected by increased feelings of nature relatedness.”
This discussion of “self/nature continuity or overlap,” invokes and calls into question the legacy of Descartes mentioned above. Indeed, it places these types of psychedelic experiences squarely in the other corner from centuries of Western philosophy and worldviews. In the age of global climate collapse, the implications of this research cannot be understated.
Current research on psychedelic medicine’s potential to treat many intractable mental health issues is invaluable, to be sure. As a mental health professional, I could not be more thrilled. Yet, the research on psychedelics’ capacity to dissolve the ego and increase one’s connection to nature places these substances in direct conversation with the climate crises, which could be seen as an equally, if not even more valuable benefit of psychedelics.
Defining Anima and Animism
Many Indigenous traditions embrace what anthropologists called an “animistic” way of perception, and have woven it into their cosmologies, ceremonies, and the very fabric of their cultural belief systems. The personification of plants and places within certain Indigenous traditions, especially terms like “madre ayahuasca”, “grandfather peyote”, or “La Pastora” (one of the many Mazatec names for Salvia divinorum) plainly acknowledges that there is more going on within the earth than an “inanimate” accumulation of minerals and dirt.
From my own time spent with Indigenous peoples from many different cultures, as well as years of formal academic study in anthropology, religion, and depth psychology, this is one of the clearest messages that I’ve received: the earth does indeed have something to say to us, if only we can remember how to listen.
Indigenous ways have always been relevant to depth psychology because of this very understanding, that the earth is undeniably ensouled, living, sentient, and worthy of respect. Psychedelics can play a crucial role in helping many people remember this humble fact, and guide us down a path which, at heart, requires a style of listening, reverence, and attention which our culture has quite painfully forgotten.
Anima Mundi for Facilitators: Relationship to Place, Grief and Soul
Now would be a reasonable time to ask how any of this applies to actually working with people navigating and integrating psychedelic experiences.
To start, establishing some form of relationship to the actual land where one’s work takes place is the bare minimum. Learn about the Indigenous people of your particular place, who they are and were, and any Indigenous place names you can manage to dig up; even better if you can learn it in person from their living descendants, and cultivate a relationship with them.
The story shared at the beginning of this article would have not meant much to me if I were ignorant of the Taino people and their particular practice of shaping their skulls. Uncovering the untold story of the land, its ecological and geological timeline, and especially its history of human migration, colonization, and modernization, must factor into a holistically grounded relationship with a place.
Sitting with the raw story of a place often leads one down the dark stairwell of grief. This is a good thing. But it is wise to be prepared for it, and to know how to support others who may find themselves immersed in a story whose weight might be much more than they can bear. Grief, however, can be one of the most profound gateways to feeling, and therefore to the Soul. Psychedelic experiences which bring one face to face with land-grief are important because they are emanations from the place itself. One could say that it is one of the earth’s many attempts to speak to human beings—a process which we have conditioned ourselves to largely ignore.
Finally, cultivating one’s own relationship to the natural world, to the unique curvature and temperament of a place, will inform what occurs when the mists of the otherworld begin to encircle one’s perception. Personally, before any psychedelic journey, I offer some tobacco, and ask permission from whatever ancestors called that place home. You wouldn’t just wander into someone’s house without knocking first. There are many reasons for doing this, the least of all being that it’s simply polite.
Closing Thoughts on Anima Mundi and Psychedelics
Psychedelics can provide a key to unlocking our culturally fractured and traumatized relationship to the natural world, and its indwelling Soul, the Anima Mundi. Psychedelics have the capacity to dissolve the ego and open one to experiences of awe in nature, which in turn help a sense of greater nature relatedness take root.
As individuals, we need awe-inspiring encounters with the Anima Mundi which crack open the ego and reveal the Soul. As a culture, we are in dire need of a renewed sense of reverence and respect for the more than-human-world, which psychedelics may be able to instill in our increasingly adrift society. And as ensouled beings, we need deeply personal, Soul-level encounters with something greater than ourselves, which help us remember how to listen to the language being sung all around us.
The other road, I’m sorry to say, is bleak.
The poet-philosopher Goethe knew this when he wrote, “And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow, you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth.”
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
In this episode, Joe interviews Boston-based teacher, coach, facilitator, and podcaster, Gibrán Rivera.
Rivera talks about the importance and benefits of group process: How we’re in a crisis of meaning and connection, and group work creates the structure of belonging so many people need. And they dig into the spectrum of healing itself: How so much Western psychedelic work is hyper-individualized, but over time, with spiritual maturation and self-sovereignty, the act of helping others can become a necessary part of one’s own healing journey.
He talks about affinity groups, how different groups can have their own distinct energy, and his “What Should White People Do?” project, which aims to add a mythos to the act of learning history and trying to improve on past mistakes. And he talks a lot about masculinity: How the recent focus on toxic masculinity, to many, has felt like a demonization of any masculinity, and how The Better Men Project aims to rethink masculinity as not only a good thing that’s needed in this world, but also as the perfect compliment to femininity; and how, to truly grow, it’s best to learn how to embody the best aspects of both and not repress the direction you’re most drawn to.
They also discuss Puerto Rico, how trauma can be weaponized, decentralization, the idea of saying ‘congratulations’ to news of divorce, how social movements often give people a license to hate, the concept of emergent consciousness dialogue, the commodification of experience, the dangers of focusing too much on the abstractions in psychedelic trips, rites of passage, Holotropic Breathwork, and the importance of shaking your hips.
Notable Quotes
“We live in a culture that yields anxiety, that yields depression, that yields loneliness. That is a crisis of meaning and a crisis of connection. And so, we can use these medicines to adapt ourselves to a culture that is unhealthy, or we can work with these medicines to actually shift the culture. But we don’t shift the culture just by improving our mental health and spiritual health. That helps, but it is about what we’re doing together that matters.”
“There’s something good in masculinity, something that the world needs. And we are here to try to remember what that is, to make it a conscious thing, to embody conscious masculinity rather than toxic masculinity. We have a well-developed discourse on toxic masculinity, but a very undeveloped discourse on what conscious masculinity is.”
“To the male psychonauts in this space: …this can be such a place where you discover so much of yourself, but if you’re doing it alone, if you’re tripping hard and only going towards abstraction, if you are not learning to come into your body, if your heart is not opening, if you’re not making yourself more vulnerable to others; all of that understanding, all of that awe, all of that seeing- you’re only getting halfway there. I just know so many psychonauts that are in that trip, in that super heady trip, and I’m just saying: Let the energy move down into your body, not just in your head, not just [being] in awe of what is happening. Feel it. Let your heart break. Let yourself be held. Do this work with others, and learn to become a person that way.”
Gibrán Rivera is a teacher, coach, guide, and Master Facilitator. He is devoted to the development of leaders and leadership networks. He works to help figure out how to thrive in times of VUCA (Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity, Ambiguity). Gibrán is the originator of the Evolutionary Leadership Workshop, host of the Better Men Project, and one of the teachers of What Should White People Do? His work brings close attention to dynamics of power, equity, and inclusion. He has designed and facilitated the coming together of some of the most prestigious fellowships in the country, and he specializes in transformational offsite retreats. His work is based on the understanding that our next evolutionary leap depends on trust and the currency of love, and he is devoting his life to defining better ways of being together in this world.
Microdosing TikTok is a vibrant community of everyday people researching and experimenting with microdosing for mental health, and finding support in the process.
What if I told you that the microdosing movement has taken TikTok by storm? Or that TikTok wasn’t just a place for dancing or kids, but a community connecting people in a unique way? Now a cultural force, TikTok has even been invaded by psychedelics, specifically the microdosing movement. And I was there to see it unfold.
When people said I should join TikTok, I politely told everyone the same things you probably think right now. It was for kids, it was for dancing, it was too conservative for people like me mainly because I am the founder of a cannabis company. And of course, who needs another social media app in our already connected world? But during quarantine I (like many) eventually caved, and I found myself trying to make sense of an app that truly felt like another world.
At first, every word I tried to say was censored and I found myself unable to even post about my own business or much of anything outside my dog. I learned the sophistication level of TikTok’s algorithm is part of its beauty and design, and because it’s a Chinese-based company it is skilled at censorship. And don’t get me wrong, censorship is prevalent on all social media apps, but TikTok is inarguably the most strict.
As a cannabis social media influencer, I’ve dealt with my fair share of getting ‘deleted’ (when an app deletes your profile) and eventually lost 1.5 million followers on Instagram in 2017. On TikTok, I couldn’t find anything to talk about that was both authentic to me and interesting to the audience. Then one day I tried something new, I told my mental health story about being bipolar and how microdosing completely transformed my life. Given the level of censorship, I didn’t say or show much, just a photo series of myself along my journey. You could see the changes, the impact, and the joy in my face. That’s when it happened—I got my first taste of the FYP.
That’s the ‘For You Page’ in TikTok lingo. The app explains the FYP as “a curated feed of videos from creators you might not follow, but TikTok’s algorithm thinks you will like based on your interests and past interactions.” Once I made it to the FYP, I had my first bonafied ‘hit’ and two things were obvious: The first was that microdosing had slipped through the cracks of TikTok’s censorship algorithms, and the second was that the audience craved more.
It’s hard to describe what happens on TikTok when your video lands on the FYP. To be honest, in the past 15 years of being on social media, I have never seen or felt anything like it. The views, comments, and follows piled up—fast. I was in sheer disbelief that I had stumbled upon something that people wanted to know more about that also wasn’t censored by TikTok. In the months to come, I would be connected to a community I could never have imagined in my wildest dreams.
Why Choose TikTok for Microdosing Info and Community?
The TikTok community, much like I was, is mentally ill, yet at the same time disillusioned by the mental health system; they’re also desperate for healing, while being courageous and hopeful. I was excited to tell my story—despite being a relative newcomer to psychedelics—I’m farther along on my microdose journey than most TikTokers, and I wanted to use this new, powerful platform to share what I’ve learned. Over the next few months I began to contribute pieces of short form content daily from ‘How I Got Off Pharmaceuticals’, to my viral recap of microdosing with LSD for 30 days, to my mother’s microdosing journey.
Was it that microdosing—the act of ingesting 1/10th to 1/20th of a psychedelic substance for enhanced mood rather than classic psychedelic effects—was so new or was it that the psychedelic movement had successfully evaded TikTok’s strict censorship policies?
If you saw the TikTok hashtag #microdosing, which had 60 million views until it was removed in mid-August, 2021, you probably witnessed the broad spectrum of people and their reasons for microdosing. TikTok is a place where people with authentic stories and interesting lives thrive; where you don’t need to be a celebrity to be an influencer, you can just be you. Mental health TikTokers regularly show off their meds, spill revelations from therapists, and share both their traumas and explorations in healing. Microdose TikTok heavily intersects with mental health, fitness, and wellness TikTok. Even with censorship of the microdosing hashtag, the community has continued to evolve and share microdosing content. In the world of ‘the Tok’, there’s an ever evolving lexicon created to skirt the app’s advancing censorship. So soon #microdos or #mycrodose will replace #microdosing like #ouid replaced #weed.
What you’ll find in certain communities of TikTok is that you are encouraged to be yourself, which is unlike other social media platforms where a more polished version of yourself is rewarded. The people who use and create content on TikTok—referred to as ‘creators’—are as unique as the algorithm itself. And unlike other social media apps, these creators can see a quick rise, thrusting them into the spotlight, allowing them to share their journey and experiences with thousands of people seemingly overnight.
Meet the Microdosing Stars of TikTok
One of the most beautiful things I have found at the intersection of microdosing and TikTok are the vibrant people who tell their stories. The bravery it takes to share your life online is often overlooked by people who don’t do it or look down on social media. It’s a compelling array of stories and personal experiences that could be such a benefit to the psychedelic and scientific communities, especially at a time when microdosing research is so desperately needed.
There’s something about TikTok’s design that makes you feel instantly seen, heard, and validated, and connects you with others in an authentic way. It’s why I believe the work of psychedelic and microdosing creators is so effective and special. Being seen and heard is an important and valuable part of the healing and integration process that’s built right into the platform.
The first person I ever saw cruising the FYP was Veronica Ridge, a hair stylist who shares her story of microdosing for ADHD with candid and endearing videos that her husband Patrick Ridge, also a well-known content creator with 16 years of sobriety, often joins. Veronica’s content about microdosing was endearing and approachable; even though she was microdosing for different reasons, seeing her content made me feel less alone. I was excited to see someone else normalizing microdosing.
Next I discovered TikTok’s microdosing mom (TikTok loves moms), Coach Kathleen who has over 130K followers. Coach Kathleen, a long time coach who focuses primarily on CEOs and executives, told me she went to TikTok after seeing the speed in which users go viral. Since then, she has garnered tens of millions of views on the app. In one of her largest videos, she explains how psilocybin affects the brain’s ‘default mode network’ that has a whopping 8 million views.
Coach Kathleen’s educational content and frequent ‘lives’ (specifically microdosing Q&A’s) are much needed support to the TikTok microdosing community. Live is another feature that drives authentic conversations and page growth for creators. It allows users to get to know creators on a much more intimate level. Creators who activate these features often see their communities blossom way beyond what they imagined their reach could be.
There are also athletes and coaches like CoachJeremy305, who has over 875K followers and who has been a long time fixture on the FYP page sharing how microdosing has aided in his fitness and wellness journey. He often encourages his audience to avoid alcohol and frequently posts psychedelic legislation updates.
Another creator, HolisticHustle, who calls herself “a crunchy mom with depression” has over 60K followers, shares her microdosing and parenthood journey. She focuses a fair amount of her content at the intersections of microdosing, motherhood, and healing her own generational trauma.
While some will write off TikTok as another social media app, I truly believe that would be doing a disservice to everyone. Believe it or not, TikTok has become a cultural mecca and there is so much to learn about people and community on this app. With the culmination of the mental health crisis, opioid epidemic, and of course the COVID-19 pandemic, people needed a virtual space where they feel safe to share, and TikTok has been the answer for a lot of people.
“TikTok has influenced my microdosing journey in the most positive way. Just following you and watching your lives has helped me tons!” Zenia, a 37-year-old mom of three kids who had resigned from her job to run an online business in order to spend more time with her children, tells Psychedelics Today. “Hearing how open and real you are about your journey and experiences made me want to do my own research and create experiences through my own journey.”
“It took me a while and lots of research to start my journey because it was such a new concept to me, but I’m glad I did!” Zenia continues. “I have really felt at home knowing that there is a huge community out there going through what I’m going through.”
This content is serving so much more than likes and views to the creator. It’s carrying microdosing to people who desperately need to know there are other alternatives, and giving them a place to share their microdosing experiences within a community. On TikTok, we see ourselves in the popular creators and feel hopeful for a new therapeutic tool, like microdosing. Plus, TikTokers, like many, are terrified to even speak to their doctors about psychedelics, but are completely out of traditional pharmaceutical options. So by finding community on TikTok, they find hope, access, and most of all, people just like them being transformed in a way they dreamed of for themselves.
“I discovered microdosing [on TikTok] in January of 2021. In the fall of 2020, after almost a year of unemployment and the utter failure of my romantic relationship (epic implosion), I decided it was time for me to go off of the anti-anxiety/anti-depression pill I’d been on for the past three years. By the end of the year I wanted to learn more about how I might holistically begin to heal myself and by chance, I saw a TikTok where you’d discussed your journey with mental health, pharmaceuticals and microdosing popped up and I thought the universe must have heard my heart because this was exactly what I was looking for,” Jen, a 38-year-old project manager from NY tells Psychedelics Today. “I went through all of the videos and consumed the information like a fire. I looked up the Microdosing Institute, reached out to Psychedelic.support, spoke to and described microdosing to my personal support circle of family and friends (and urged them to do their own research), found a support group online and based in my region and reached out on Instagram to find my own healer who could act as a guide. By February, I had all of the resources to begin my first journey and so I did at the end of March.”
Microdosing and TikTok Are the Future: Will the Psychedelic Community Join?
Over my time on TikTok I have been able to come to a unique understanding of the sheer magnitude and scale of the future surrounding the psychedelic space as an industry and the mental health crisis it will be meeting. I sit up late at night and worry about the time it will take for real progress and access for the countless people who endlessly direct message me for help. I feel hopeful for the clinical trials on psychedelics, for FDA approval of these drugs as medicine, and for the legalization of psychedelics because Gen Z and Millenials are not the generations of the past.
We want to be part of the future where entheogens are regulated and accessible. We want to appreciate, know, respect, and understand Indigenous practices. We wish we could talk to our therapists, psychiatrists, and psychologists about alternative treatments. We will fight for a future where universal health care covers psychedelic therapy. But for now, we are struggling with mental health—and with the COVID-19 pandemic, there’s new people arriving to the struggle everyday. We’re dealing with despair, isolation, and the side effects of antidepressants for the first time in a broken and overloaded system, and we need help wherever we can get it.
In the unlikeliest of places I have seen and felt a snapshot of humanity that was simply unexpected. A place built so perfectly imperfect, like humans themselves, that even with censorship and sophisticated algorithms alike it could not be stopped or suppress the needs of the people. And it’s my greatest hope that progress, unity, science, Indigenous and modern culture can coexist for the greatest success for all. In the race for the golden ticket of the burgeoning psychedelic industry, TikTok has shown me what’s really at stake—our mental health and wellbeing. I hope more clinicians, researchers, leaders, and companies in the space take on the challenge of joining the rest of the community.
The cultural storm and human need for psychedelics can’t be stopped or slowed down because of the sheer speed of social media, and the psychedelic community can do the important work during this digital age on an app where the impact can be truly astounding.
This next chapter of the psychedelic renaissance will not be televised, it will be on TikTok and I hope the psychedelic community will pay attention.
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
Understanding what spiritual emergence and spiritual emergency are, how they differ from psychosis, and how to integrate them as a psychedelic traveler or practitioner.
This is part of our ongoing series on transpersonal psychology and how it can help us understand psychedelic experiences. Check out part 1, ‘What is Transpersonal Psychology?’ here.
In recent years there has been a resurgence of interest in the therapeutic potentials of psychedelic substances within both clinical and non-clinical settings, with many seeking out psychedelics and plant medicines for spiritual purposes and attempts at self-healing. Psychedelics have the ability to catalyze immense shifts in our understanding and perceptions of reality as well as the potential to bring forth that which is latent within the psyche. Although the sudden eruption of psychic content or change in ways of seeing the world is at the core of psychedelic healing, it can be a destabilizing process that occasionally triggers a type of unintended psychological distress known as “spiritual emergency.”
What Is Spiritual Emergency?
The term “spiritual emergency” was introduced to the field of transpersonal psychology by psychiatrist Stanislav Grof and his late wife, psychotherapist Christina Grof, in the 1980s to refer to a kind of spiritual or transformative crisis in which an individual could move towards a greater state of integration and wholeness. In their groundbreaking book on the subject, Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis, the Grofs describe spiritual emergency as “both a crisis and an opportunity of rising to a new level of awareness.”
Intentionally constructed as a play on words, the term “emergency” indicates crisis, all the while containing within it the term “emergence”, pertaining to the process by which something becomes known or visible, implying that both—crisis and opportunity—can arise. The Grofs thus differentiate between a spiritual emergency and the more gradual, less disruptive process of spiritual emergence.
Compared with spiritual emergency, the process of spiritual emergence, sometimes referred to as ‘spiritual awakening’, consists of a slower, gentler unfoldment of psychospiritual energies that does not negatively affect an individual’s ability to function within the various domains of their life. Thus, spiritual emergence is a natural process of attuning to a more expanded state of awareness in which individuals generally feel a deeper sense of connection to themselves, others, and the world around them.
Conversely, cases of spiritual emergency usually share many characteristics with psychosis, and as such are often misunderstood and misdiagnosed. However, spiritual emergencies differ from psychosis in that they are not suggestive of long-term mental illness, and provide individuals with an opportunity to use their woundedness to go deeper into themselves and find healing.
The fact that the concept of spiritual emergency is not known and widely accepted beyond the context of transpersonal psychology is partially bound up with an age-old argument that has long permeated Western science and culture. In culture at large, spiritual and mystical-type experiences have long been ridiculed and pathologized, being considered delusional and reflective of mental illness. Dominated by materialist approaches to consciousness and mental health, Western science generally lumps spiritual crises together with psychosis, attributing their origins to biological or neurological dysfunction and treating them on the physical level. However, in the context of transpersonal psychology, spiritual experiences are considered to be real and integral to the evolutionary development of the individual.
Inherent to the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency is their holotropic model that revolves around the central tenet that we have an innate tendency to move towards wholeness, possessing within us an “inner healing intelligence.” Similar to the way the body starts its own sophisticated process of healing when we injure ourselves physically, the psyche possesses its own healing intelligence that takes place unseen within us. Just like fevers fighting off infections, spiritual crises can be understood as the psyche’s way of signalling that imbalance needs to be overcome as it moves toward a state of greater integration.
Although experiences of spiritual emergency are highly individual, they all share in the fact that the typical functioning of the ego is impaired, and the logical mind is overridden by the world of intuition. Scary and potentially traumatizing, spiritual emergencies can be interspersed with moments of fervent ecstasy in which an individual believes that they have special abilities to communicate with God or cosmic consciousness, giving way to a temporary messianic complex.
Conversely, a person might become possessed by a potent feeling of paranoia, feeling that the universe is conspiring against them, or they may feel detached from material reality, only connected to this realm through a fine, ephemeral thread. Happenings and material objects might become imbued with symbolic, other-worldly meaning. For some it means spirit possession, compulsive behaviors which lead them to forget to eat and sleep, or a soul-crushing sense of depression that makes them choose to isolate themselves from others.
Spiritual Emergency Triggered By Psychedelics
Although states of spiritual crisis can come about spontaneously, they can be triggered by emotional stress, physical exertion, disease, near-death experiences, childbirth, meditative practice, and exposure to psychedelics, among other things.
Psychedelics, in particular, have the ability to trigger spiritual emergencies in that they rapidly propel a journeyer from one state of consciousness to another in a mere matter of hours. If an individual is not adequately prepared, these sudden encounters with the numinous can be incredibly destabilizing and have challenging, unintended impacts.
Furthermore, psychedelics can activate parts of the psyche, throwing us off balance by rapidly bringing forth material from the unconscious that we need to integrate. The Grofs expand on this further in their book, Stormy Search for the Self: A Guide to Personal Growth through Transformational Crisis, writing, “Occasionally, the amount of unconscious material that emerges from deep levels of the psyche can be so enormous that the person involved can have difficulty functioning in everyday reality.”
According to Kyle Buller, Co-Founder and Director of Education here at Psychedelics Today, M.S. in Clinical Mental Health, and certified Spiritual Emergence Coach, psychedelics and engaging in spiritual and contemplative practices can make individuals more prone to spiritual emergencies. “Psychedelics and plant medicines open us up to new ways of seeing the world, and this new way of being or seeing can be destabilizing for some,” he says.
Additionally, Buller explains that those with existing traumas or underlying mental health disorders are more at risk for spiritual emergency-type experiences. “I come back to Grof’s notion that psychedelics are ‘non-specific amplifiers of mental or psychic processes,’” he explains. “If someone is already dealing with a lot and difficult content is brought to the surface and amplified, they might not be able to contain it without a proper set and setting or support.”
In the context of psychedelics, spiritual crises can occur when there is an expansion of consciousness that happens without adequate containment. For that reason, most spiritual emergencies triggered by psychedelics don’t occur in the context of clinical studies, but rather through recreational use, self-exploration, and even ceremonial use. Arguably, within plant medicine ceremonies, there are clear parameters that contain the experience as it is unfolding, however, upon leaving the container of the ceremony, most individuals go back to their normal, everyday lives, and this shift can be challenging.
Research fellow at the Centre for the History of the Emotions at Queen Mary University of London, Jules Evans, detailed his experience of a psychedelic-induced spiritual emergency in his self-published, Holiday From the Self: An Accidental Ayahuasca Adventure. In Evans’ case, he went to the Peruvian Amazon to participate in an ayahuasca retreat.
Although Evans gave it careful consideration and had a positive experience at the retreat, once he began travelling back to Iquitos, he found himself feeling disconnected, and moreover disorientated. As the days passed by, an eerie and intense feeling of doubt around his sense of reality washed over him. In an article recounting his experience he writes, “When I got texts from loved ones, I thought my subconscious was constructing them. I felt profoundly alone in this fake reality.”
Evans had previously spent time studying ecstatic experiences academically, and was partially familiar with the concept of spiritual emergency, helping him to not “freak out.” However, for most of us, that isn’t the case and when spiritual crises start to unfold, not knowing what is happening can plunge us into a deep state of fear and terror.
Another reason why those who experiment with psychedelics are more prone to spiritual crises is the lack of cultural support. Buller places emphasis on the need for adequate cultural containers, suggesting that the fact that psychedelics and plant medicines are not accepted by dominant culture poses another hurdle for integrating these experiences.
“When a person has a profound experience, where do they turn or seek support? Does the cultural cosmology around them embrace these types of experiences and if not, how does that exacerbate one’s difficult experience?” Buller says.
In Western culture, we have lost the cultural frames and mythological maps that could usher us through intense experiences of psychospiritual opening, a process which we need to go through at times. Reflecting on this subject in a 2008 paper, medical anthropologist Sara Lewis, explored how Westerners are at increased risk for experiencing spiritual crises and psychological distress following ayahuasca ceremonies due to what she describes as a “lack of cultural support.”
Spiritual crises have been suggested to resemble instances of ‘shamanic illness’ as experienced by shamanic initiates in certain Indigenous cultures. Compared with those in Indigenous communities, however, Westerners lack community resources and guidance to contextualize experiences produced by psychedelic plant medicines, and often fear becoming mentally ill as a result.
Distinguishing Between Psychosis and Spiritual Emergency
The Grofs suggest in their book, Spiritual Emergency, that mainstream psychiatry and psychology make no distinction between mystical states and mental illness, tending to treat non-ordinary states with suppressive medication rather than recognizing their healing potentials.
For psychedelic practitioners and integration providers working with those experiencing psychological distress after a psychedelic experience, evaluating whether the individual is a danger to themselves and others, and determining personal or family history of mental health disorders can be incredibly helpful in understanding whether the phenomenon is a psychotic break or a spiritual crisis. An additional indicator is understanding how a given individual relates to their spirituality, ascertaining whether it brings them a sense of hope. Further, it is useful to rule out any form of neurologic or physical disorder that would impair normal mental functioning such as an infection, tumor, or uremia.
Another crucial factor is the client’s ability to understand the phenomenon as an unfolding psychological process that they can navigate internally as well as cooperatively with the mental health provider, being able to differentiate to a substantial degree between their internal experience and consensus reality.
In a 1986 paper on the subject, the Grofs caution, “It is important to emphasize that not every experience of unusual states of consciousness and intense perceptual, emotional, cognitive, and psychosomatic changes falls into the category of spiritual emergency.” Further highlighting that the concept of spiritual crisis is not intended to counter traditional psychiatry, but rather offer an alternative to those who are able to benefit from it.
Thus mental health practitioners looking to learn how to distinguish between spiritual emergency and psychosis must learn there is a fine line between the two which often makes it difficult to discern. While there is a tendency for traditional psychiatry to pathologize mystical states, the Grofs jointly warn of the dangers of “spiritualizing psychotic states”, placing emphasis on the need to use proper discernment around a given individual’s experience.
Speaking to the subject, Buller offers advice, “I would encourage a combination of open-mindedness and critical thinking. For many mental health professionals, this concept is going to push against most of our training, however, we need an open mind to explore this area and do our best to listen to the experiencer.”
How to Deal with a Spiritual Crisis
In a culture where spiritual issues are not easily understood, spiritual crises can be incredibly isolating and shameful in that the person undergoing them feels that they cannot open up and share about their experience with others for fear of being labeled as “crazy.”
Reflecting on people’s reluctance to share about these types of challenges, Buller offers, “I think this highlights some distrust in the current system around these types of experiences.” He adds, “It also makes me wonder how many people may be struggling with difficult experiences and aren’t reaching out for help because of fearing what might happen if they disclose their experience to a mental health professional.”
For those undergoing a spiritual emergency, it can feel comforting to know that they are not alone in their struggle, and that many other people have been through similarly challenging experiences. It is also helpful to remember that the crisis is part of the healing process, and that it too will pass.
One resource is the Spiritual Emergence Network (SEN), founded by Christina Grof in 1980, or its global sister project, the International Spiritual Emergence Network (ISEN) which provides practical advice for navigating spiritual emergency as well as offering a specialized mental health referral and support service for those seeking help. Additionally, for those merely looking to learn more about the subject, Psychedelics Today offers a free webinar called, “Spiritual Emergence or Psychosis,” which explores some of the research around psychosis and spiritual emergence.
When experiencing a spiritual emergency as a result of psychedelic use, it is important to factor in set, setting, and integration, just as one would factor those components into an intentional psychedelic trip in the first place. In terms of ‘setting,’ the person experiencing the spiritual crisis should seek out a non-judgemental space in which they feel safe and supported—whether that be with a mental health practitioner or in the hands of family and friends.
Beyond the environment, ‘set’ refers to our mindset and the way we frame the experience. Because there is a conceivable amount of stigma surrounding spirituality, cultivating one’s mindset means understanding that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with the person experiencing a spiritual emergency, and that the difficulty may very well be a crucial stepping stone on their personal path to healing.
Lastly, meaning-making in the context of psychedelic integration is of paramount importance as it allows individuals to take the crucial step of transforming negative experiences into something of value, which could take anywhere from a couple of months to the rest of their lives.
When working with someone experiencing a spiritual emergency, it is important to take a destigmatizing and non-pathologizing approach. Recognizing this, Stanley Krippner, psychologist and parapsychologist, wrote in a 2012 paper, “The naming process is one of the most important components of healing.” As such, mental health practitioners working with those experiencing psychological distress after a psychedelic experience need to be mindful in how they frame what is happening.
Spiritual Emergency Beyond the Scope of Transpersonal Psychology
While the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency was undoubtedly ahead of its time, there is still room for growth and maturation, and some suggest it may be helpful to use different terminology around the concept.
David Lukoff, professor of psychology at Sofia University and licensed psychologist specializing in the treatment of religious and spiritual crises, was influenced by the Grofs’ concept of spiritual emergency early on in his career, and has partially used the concept to inform his work in co-authoring new diagnostic category of “Religious or Spiritual Problem” included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) 4 and DSM-5.
Lukoff suggests that although the term spiritual emergency, which is well-known in transpersonal psychology, is not used or necessarily accepted in mainstream circles, spiritual and religious issues are now becoming understood through different terminology.
“I think Stan and Christina nailed the concept, but as soon as you use the term ‘emergency’ in the healthcare field, it implies the worst case scenario in which a person might need hospitalization,” Lukoff tells Psychedelics Today. “The more neutral term ‘problem’ is now used within psychiatry as a result of the DSM category that I helped author, and the term ‘struggle’ is now used within psychology.”
Further, Lukoff emphasizes that he has seen a major shift, even though it is still a minority, in psychology and psychiatry programs on the coverage of religion and spirituality. “I know that the transpersonal world doesn’t always pick up on this, but there is a real renaissance within the healthcare field in which more attention is being heeded to religious and spiritual strengths as well as problems and struggles,” he says.
“There are definitely times when spiritual issues can become crises or conflicts, however, it is also true that for the majority of people their religion and their spirituality are sources of strength, more often associated with positive coping,” shares Lukoff.
In his early 20s, Lukoff experienced his own LSD-induced spiritual crisis in which he believed that he was a reincarnation of Buddha and Jesus, manifested in his present form to unite the peoples of the world. In part, Lukoff attributes his career trajectory as a clinical psychologist and professor of psychology to the psychosis-like transformational crisis he experienced early on.
Reflecting on his own psychedelic-induced spiritual crisis, Lukoff offers the view that careful preparation goes a long way in being able to mitigate the potential negative effects of psychedelics. Even so, it is important not to trivialize or reduce psychedelic-induced spiritual crises to conjectures about “bad trips.” Spiritual crises need not merely be the product of challenging psychedelic experiences as they can be similarly triggered by potent positive experiences.
Spiritual Crisis and The Future of Psychedelic Healing
Psychedelic healing is not linear. It is not as simple as popping a pill and being miraculously cured. Rather, it is a messy process which sometimes involves psychospiritual distress that is integral to the healing process. As medical and mainstream interest in psychedelic substances continues to expand, and more and more people have these kinds of experiences, it is imperative that psychedelic practitioners develop literacy around the concept of spiritual crisis, as well as develop frameworks to help individuals contextualize their challenging experiences.
With increased awareness and use of psychedelics, are practitioners ready to deal with some of the transpersonal experiences that clients will bring to them? Buller emphasizes the need for diverse and nuanced perspectives as we move forward into the psychedelic renaissance.
“While I appreciate the trauma focus and narrative in psychedelic research, I worry that we might end up reducing everything down to psychological terminology, discrediting a person’s experience,” he shares. “What happens when someone has an entity encounter in a psychedelic experience? Do we just reduce that experience down to a possible traumatic event in someone’s life or write it off as unreal because we have a mechanistic understanding of what that experience is?”
Moving towards the future, it is important to remain open-minded, and take holistic approaches that interweave multiple narrative frameworks, including that of transpersonal psychology, through which people can understand and make meaning of their experiences, including the potential for spiritual emergencies and their transformational—yet difficult—outcomes.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Joe and Kyle sit down for a discussion spanning spiritual emergence, the concept of the transpersonal, and a simple but huge question: What is healing?
They dissect the concept of healing and how it relates to psychedelics and inner work: Is the psychedelic experience always healing? What needs to be done to turn traumatic experiences into catalysts? Is it fair to relate the psychedelic experience and post-experience integration work to surgery and the body healing on its own? Can we create a realistic and affordable model for retreat centers with built-in, long-term, communal support systems? How do we know when to trust the radical insights psychedelics may steer us toward? And how do we prepare for the changes in relationships they may create as well?
And they discuss plenty more as it relates to these topics: The difference between spiritual emergence and spiritual emergency, Ben Sessa’s idea of MDMA as an antibiotic for psychiatry, Ram Dass’ idea of not starting down a spiritual journey unless one intends on finishing it, the work of Ken Wilber, Erik Davis and the mysticism in Grateful Dead lyrics, the challenge of earthly expectations, consensus and compromise, decadent mysticism, and the concept of a spiritual quest itself as healing.
Notable Quotes
“Maybe that’s a good way of looking at it: You’re having a massive intervention and then you heal afterwards. My tendons were so thrashed before a lot of my surgeries that I needed the surgery and then I needed to heal. The surgery wasn’t the thing that triggered the healing, but it set up the initial conditions from which I could then heal.” -Joe “Is there something about a spiritual quest that heals? I think, on a somewhat occasional basis, yes. …I think there’s something there. Intentionality and deep focus and reverence in the mystical experience; as we’ve seen at the Hopkins trials: the higher the mystical experience on the MEQ, the more healing. So there seems to be some sort of correlation there.” -Joe
“It’s normal, I think, to maybe not always feel healed even though a lot of the mainstream articles are kind of portraying it as that. And I think that’s the danger around not being honest about our own experiences and our own process, [and just] putting out the highlights of the experience [instead of] really just trying to be real and say there’s some challenging stuff that comes up. …People really just want to highlight the peaks. But there’s a lot of juice in the valleys.” -Kyle “A friend I was talking about earlier talked about all these other changes that happened in clinical trials and found a researcher attached to a major university that said, ‘Well, you know, I have seen some pretty dramatic relationship changes (outside of healing) in these folks that have gone through the trial.’ …What does that mean? And how do we prep people for that? Like, are you going to be able to stay with your wife after you’ve seen God two or three times in session?” -Joe
Everything you need to know about Carl Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious and how it can help us process, navigate and guide psychedelic journeys.
This is part of our column ‘Psychedelics in Depth‘ which defines and explains depth psychology topics in the context of psychedelics.
A boundless sea rises to engulf the land. A solitary ship floats delicately on its churning surface. On the boat there are two figures, rapidly bailing out water from the deck, while a pair of animals look nervously over the edge. Out of the water bursts forth a massive tree, lifting up the boat in one of its thousand limbs, rescuing the people and the animals from the murky abyss below. The moon blocks out the sun, an eagle soars across the sky, and all falls into darkness…
Dream, psychedelic vision, or ancient myth? Can you tell the difference?
If you answered no, that’s because this outlandish sequence of events cannot possibly be based in objective reality, and therefore must be subject to interpretation. Who’s to say what any of it means—for now it remains a tapestry of evocative images containing infinite avenues where we might create meaning.Perhaps only the dreamer, journeyer, or culture of origin is truly capable of this, since an image’s deeper meaning can only become clear when its context is provided.
What is clear, however, is that the images which emerge in dreams, psychedelic states, and myths share themes in common, which is a foundational principle of depth psychology.
While the patterns or images themselves might be considered ‘archetypes,’ the question of where they come from is our main concern in this article.
Did that story above seem somehow familiar? Did it remind you of other stories you’ve heard before, once upon a time? Jung and other depth psychologists would likely say that they emerged out of the ‘collective unconscious,’a foundational concept in depth psychology.
The Dark Side of the Moon
The idea of the collective unconscious is perhaps one of the most unique and enduring concepts of Jungian and depth psychology. The very question of its existence caused the never-healed split between Freud and Jung, which marked one of the most significant moments in the history of psychology.
To embrace the reality of this mysterious, timeless realm is to embrace the notion that there are indeed regions of consciousness that we cannot, and will not, understand by our usual ways of knowing.
In this regard, the collective unconscious opens the way to the unknown, which psychedelics can, gracefully or otherwise, escort us into closer communion with. It could even be said that modern Western culture’s long standing fear and stigmatization of plant medicine, psychedelics and altered states of consciousness is an intense fear of the unknown projected onto the plant, pill or powder in question.
Psychedelics can ferry us across the river into the storehouse of repressed human experiences that modern culture has sought to obscure, dilute, or completely ignore. This can look like vivid encounters with death, powerful reminders of humility or sobering wake-up calls that break us out of whatever psychological trance state we all seem to occasionally fall into.
Despite all of our technology and scientific discoveries, to this day the collective unconscious remains as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
What Is the Collective Unconscious?
According to Jung in his Collected Works, Volume 8, the terrain of the collective unconscious “contains the whole spiritual heritage of mankind’s evolution, born anew in the brain structure of every individual,” and can seem “something like an unceasing stream or perhaps ocean of images and figures which drift into consciousness in our dreams or in abnormal states of mind.”
In other words, the collective unconscious is a universal aspect of the human experience—something akin to a genetic heritage of the psyche, composed of primordial images and which express themselves symbolically through dreams and myths across time and space.
In his later writings, Jung used the term‘objective psyche’to refer to the collective unconscious because of a refinement in his thinking and a desire to steer his work away from focusing on overtly social phenomena like collective projection or groupthink. While this was a facet of Jung’s work, the true scope of the collective unconscious far surpasses this domain.
Additionally, there exists the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, the difference of which is important to understand and explore.
The personal unconscious contains all of the unique aspects of your personality and psyche which have been repressed, such as difficult memories, traumas, and behaviors you’re not even aware of. The personal shadow, according to Jung, is composed of all the aspects of your personality which fail to neatly conform to your ego’s idea of who you are, which is called your ‘persona’. Unless these shadow aspects are consciously faced and integrated (often called ‘shadow work’), they inevitably tend to be projected outward. But more on that another time.
The collective unconscious is a different beast entirely, and refers to regions of the psyche far beyond the personal repressed material described above. Nearly all of Jung’s most evocative concepts, such as complexes, archetypes, anima/animus, and shadow arise from or are connected to the collective unconscious. By its very nature, the collective unconscious is unknowable and imperceivable to us by our usual methods of perception.
Over the course of his life and work, Jung postulated different ideas as to what this infinite realm might be and what its purpose could be for humanity. His work contained within The Red Book expresses his personal journey of delving into his own uncharted depths through cryptic prose and evocative, semi-religious artwork.
What is clear is that the collective unconscious remains an elusive concept, and that any discussion of it requires a healthy dose of mystery and wonder. Because it is ineffable and eludes full definition, the collective unconscious remains something beyond our ability to fully control, manipulate, and know—actions which, from a depth perspective, all emerge from the ego. And perhaps it should remain so.
“Psychedelic substances don’t cause specific psychological effects. Although they increase energy levels that activate psychological processes, which allows one to consciously experience otherwise unconscious content, they don’t give rise to specific experiences or content. The content that arises from the unconscious during a psychedelic session, like the content that arises in a dream during sleep, is what is available in the unconscious at the time. What emerges can naturally vary, then from session to session for each person, and can certainly vary from person to person.”
Psychedelics cause a “lowering of the threshold of consciousness,” according to Jung, meaning that they bring one into closer contact with the unconscious. Another way of looking at it is that unconscious material bubbles up to the surface during altered states of consciousness, leading to the vast array of reactions that psychedelics are known to evoke. From this perspective, the unconscious material rising to the surface is emerging both from the personal and the collective unconscious.
The ego has a hard time believing that anything could be beyond its realm of knowledge and control. Experiences of fear, which can often infuse the onset or peak of psychedelic experiences, can be seen as the ego’s response to losing its grip on psychic control. As we plunge ever more deeply into the waters of the unconscious, fear is the ego’s alarm system, signaling that it’s well-maintained boat appears to be going down. Yet this descent, as we know from some of the world’s oldests myths and ceremonial traditions, is where real transformation begins, and as any psychedelic guide worth their salt will tell you, the best course of action at this point is to surrender, breathe, and go within.
What actually happens within the psyche while immersed in a powerful psychedelic experience can be interpreted from a variety of perspectives, as decades of psychedelic literature and multidisciplinary studies demonstrate. But like most great mysteries, psychedelics create more questions than they can possibly answer.
From a depth perspective, however, one could say that psychedelics catalyze the emergence of previously repressed psychic material which arises from both the personal and the collective unconscious —a sentiment expressed by many before. Stanislav Grof deemed psychedelics ‘abreactives,’ meaning that they bring to consciousness whatever material which has the most emotional charge.
Because psychedelics can open one’s psyche to experience aspects of the collective unconscious, various archetypes, images, complexes, and energies can be personally experienced, leading to profound moments of catharsis, healing, insight, and what Jung called, ‘numinosity’: overwhelming feelings that burst forth when one is confronted with the power of transpersonal images, archetypes, and experiences. In other words, a full-blown mystical experience.
The implications of understanding the psychedelic experience through a depth psychological lens cannot be overstated, and helps us better understand what Grof meant in his famous axiom: “Psychedelics are to the study of the mind what the telescope is for astronomy and the microscope is for biology.”
The Collective Unconscious and Psychedelics For Psychedelic Facilitators
If you are a psychedelic therapist or facilitator seeking to integrate a depth psychological approach into your practice, it is important to never overlook the significance of the unconscious and the critical role that it plays in psychedelic work. This means expecting the unexpected, listening for the deeper, unconscious threads in a client’s process, and always approaching this work from a place of humility and caution. One could say that the essential function of psychedelic therapy, from the beginning of preparation, through the dosing session, to post-trip integration sessions, is essentially one long process of integrating material from the personal and the collective unconscious.
Depth psychology will inevitably require you to learn to speak two languages at once, as you keep one foot grounded in the world of ego consciousness, persona, and outer objective facts, while maintaining another firmly rooted in the world of symbol, metaphor, myth, and subjectivity. Becoming literate in this dream language takes time, practice, and a dedication to your own inner work as well.
It’s important to remember this challenging stance requires letting go of dogmatic perspectives, beliefs and certainties, as well as cultivating a certain level of humility and openness. Never forget that each time your client is venturing into psychedelic space, they are venturing into the unknown. The role of the guide or psychedelic therapist is to be a light along the way, to clear the path as much as possible, and to point the journeyer in the right direction as they bravely step into their own star-lit darkness.
The enduring message of depth psychology, however, is that those stars, and that darkness, are not yours alone. The inner world is not an empty void of nothing, but a fertile space utterly saturated with meaning, the comprehension of which can take a lifetime. The collective unconscious belongs to the collective heritage of humanity, is passed down to us in myth over countless millennia, and is remembered in our dreams and visions.
Perhaps this is what Joseph Campbell meant when he famously said, “And where you had thought to be alone, you shall be with all the world.”
About the Author
Simon Yugler is a depth and psychedelic integration therapist based in Portland, OR with a masters (MA) in depth counseling psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. Weaving Jungian psychology, Internal Family Systems therapy, and mythology, Simon also draws on his diverse experiences learning from indigenous cultures around the world, including the Shipibo ayahuasca tradition. He has a background in experiential education, and has led immersive international journeys for young adults across 10 countries. He is passionate about initiation, men’s work, indigenous rights, decolonization, and helping his clients explore the liminal wilds of the soul. Find out more on his website and on Instagram , Twitter (@depth_medicine) or Facebook.
About the Illustrator
Martin Clarke is a British Designer and Illustrator from Nottingham, England. Specializing in branding, marketing and visual communication, Martin excels at creating bespoke brand identities and striking visual content across multiple platforms for web, social media, print and packaging. See more of his work here.
In this episode, Joe interviews philosopher, author, and assistant professor in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco: Matthew D. Segall, Ph.D.
Segall discusses the relationship between consciousness and neuroscience: how science is helpful, but ultimately amounts to just one of many different tools towards describing consciousness (not truly understanding it), and how science, philosophy, and religion need to focus on their specialties but also work together towards better defining the human experience. And he talks about the importance of philosophy in trying to make sense of non-ordinary states of consciousness.
As this is a very back-and-forth, philosophically-based conversation, they talk about a lot more: William James, David Ray Griffin’s concept of “hardcore common sense presuppositions,” Richard Dawkins, scientism, positivism, how we’re slowly thinning the line between technology and humanity, Timothy Leary and whether or not anyone really “dropped out,” German idealism, how capitalism co-opts everything, John Cobb, Alfred North Whitehead, Universal Basic Income, the death denial in capitalist life, and how to use the relationship between the internet and capitalism to improve society.
Notable Quotes
“The thing about capitalism is that it lives inside each of us at the level of our desires and our drives because we’ve been shaped by it. So we can’t pretend like it’s this big, bad monster out there that other people believe in. The problem with capitalism is that it’s not just a worldview you decide to believe in or not; it is the very structure, again, of your desires and your sense of identity. It’s inside of you.”
“They say cannabis causes problems with motivation. Well yea, once you see through the value structure of our society, you lose motivation to participate because it’s no longer appetizing to you to engage in the rat race.”
“Fifty years later, after Leary was saying ‘Turn on, tune in, and drop out’, a lot of people thought that they followed his instructions, but again, capitalism co-opted the whole hippie movement, and by the 90s, they were selling Che Guevera t-shirts at the shopping mall and Apple was using the Beatles to sell computers.”
“The way that liberals tend to think about these questions [is that] they get really mad at Facebook for being biased in what ads they allow and not censoring certain things and selling ads to Russians and stuff. …A publicly traded corporation has one purpose: to maximize shareholder profits. And that’s the business model for Facebook, and so they’ll take money from anyone who wants to sell ads. They’re a private company. They’re not a public utility that has anywhere in its corporate charter as part of its mission: ‘improving civil society’ or ‘helping America maintain its democracy.’ Why would we expect a private corporation to do that? There’s no incentive in capitalism for that. And yet we get mad and blame Mark Zuckerberg. Why aren’t we blaming capitalism? That’s where the source code for this problem is.”
“Psychedelics aren’t necessarily going to wake us up, but I think that’s why we need philosophy. These substances and these experiences need to be contained within a meaningful story and a meaningful theory of reality so that we can make sense of what we’re experiencing and integrate it, and not only come out of those experiences with a profound sense of what’s wrong with our society, but with at least a good idea for what we’d like instead.”
Matthew D. Segall, PhD, is assistant professor in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, where he teaches courses primarily on German Idealism and Alfred North Whitehead’s process philosophy. He is the author of Physics of the World-Soul: Whitehead’s Adventure in Cosmology (2021) and has published journal articles and book chapters on a wide range of topics including panpsychist metaphysics, media theory, the philosophy of biology, the evolution of religion, and psychedelics. He blogs regularly at footnotes2plato.com. His current research focuses on the panpsychist turn in contemporary philosophy of mind and its implications for the scientific study of the origins of life and consciousness.
Our regular legal contributor explains why the DEA denied the ayahuasca church Soul Quest’s religious freedom exemption application, and how the DEA may be overstepping its role.
To explain what happened between the DEA and Soul Quest, we first need to step back and start from the very beginning. Our story begins with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), a sub-agency of the US Department of Justice, itself an agency of the Executive Branch. The DEA serves as legal gatekeeper of scheduled substances under the Federal Controlled Substances Act, including ayahuasca which contains dimethyltryptamine (DMT), a Schedule 1 substance. Although Schedule 1 substances are generally forbidden, their manufacture and use are permitted for licensed scientific research and as sacrament in sincere religious practice. In fact, there are United States Supreme Court cases that have recognized the First Amendment protected use of psychedelic substances, such as ayahuasca and peyote, in religious practices.
Against this backdrop, the DEA asserts jurisdiction over access and importation of Schedule 1 substances. For religious users, the DEA requires all religiously inclined importers, manufacturers, and users of Schedule 1 substances to first seek DEA exemption (meaning: acknowledgment and permission) before being allowed to import or to access such drugs. The DEA even published an exemption application and requires all parties seeking exemption to provide a raft of data, substantial disclosures, interviews, among other requirements, signed and sworn under oath, attesting to the possession and use of Schedule 1 substances.
The Soul Quest Exemption Application
In an effort to comply with the DEA Soul Quest Church of Mother Earth, Inc. submitted a request for religious exemption to use ayahuasca as a sacrament in 2017. It wanted to assure its congregants and officiants would be protected from further and future investigation and interdiction by the DEA, which posed a continuing threat of intervention and prevention of Soul Quest’s ayahuasca importation.
Under attorney letterhead, Soul Quest’s request sought exemption from application of the Controlled Substances Act in its totality—in other words, Soul Quest was seeking the ability to import, possess, manufacture and administer ayahuasca, all on premise of religious freedom:
“…request for a religious-based exemption by Soul Quest Church of Mother Earth, Inc., d/b/a, Soul Quest Ayahuasca Church of Mother Earth Retreat & Wellness Center (“Soul Quest”) to the provisions of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C. § 801, et seq., specifically as it pertains to the ritual use by Soul Quest of ayahuasca for its sacramental activities. Soul Quest asserts its eligibility for such an exemption, pursuant to the United States Supreme Court’s decision in 0 Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao Do Vegetal v. Gonzalez, 546 U.S. 418 (2006) (“Gonzalez”), and the provisions of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, 42 U.S.C. §§ 2000bb, et seq., (“RFRA”).”
In support of its First Amendment and Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) rights, Soul Quest provided a variety of organization records and information, including bylaws, articles of faith, dietary provisions, mission statement, safety and security protocols, among other requirements. Several church members also sat for extensive interviews with DEA agents.
The DEA’s Denial of Soul Quest
Disappointingly, albeit not surprisingly, the DEA took the better part of four years to come to a decision: application denied.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
It is important to make a clear distinction here that the First Amendment does not grant religious freedom. Rather, it acknowledges its preexistence. The US Constitution presupposes religious freedom existed before nationhood and that the innate right would be forever protected from government intrusion through the guarantee provided for in the First Amendment. In this sense, the First Amendment is a brake on governmental regulatory power. But this does not mean the government cannot regulate. It can. But, when those regulations intersect religious belief or practice, the borders of Constitutional right can sometimes be ambiguous and require a court ruling. That is where the Federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act comes into play. It assures that the burden is always on the government to prove that its religion-impacting regulation serves a compelling governmental interest and is being enforced by the least restrictive means. To this end, the DEA’s denial letter actually does a fine job of summarizing the RFRA standard. But for reasons explained a little further below, the DEA is misinterpreting its position in the RFRA analysis flow:
“According to RFRA, the “Government shall not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion” unless the Government can demonstrate “that application of the burden to the person (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.” 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1; AG Memorandum at 3. To establish a prima facie case for an exemption from the CSA under RFRA, a claimant must demonstrate that application of the CSA’s prohibitions with respect to a specific controlled substance would (1) substantially burden, (2) religious exercise (as opposed to a philosophy or way of life), (3) based on a belief that is sincerely held by the claimant. 0 Centro, 546 U.S. at 428. Once the claimant has established these threshold requirements, the burden shifts to the government to demonstrate that the challenged prohibition furthers a compelling governmental interest by the least restrictive means. This “compelling interest test” must be satisfied through application of the CSA to the particular claimant who alleges that a sincere exercise of religion is being substantially burdened. Id. at 430-31.”
The DEA Installed its RFRA Filter Backwards
Soul Quest is in litigation with the DEA over the exemption denial and is challenging the DEA’s determinations, seeking to enjoin the government agency’s continuing interdictions of its religious practices. Whatever facts the DEA disbelieved or questioned will ultimately be put to a judge (if the case survives to an evidentiary hearing).
Not only does Soul Quest get to challenge the DEA’s application of the facts, but Soul Quest also gets to challenge how the DEA applies the law. In this regard, any psychedelic religious group would be right in thinking to attack the process. That is, just because the DEA says it gets to decide what a religion is, does not necessarily mean the DEA actually has that authority. Likewise, just because the DEA says its policy of wholesale refusal to grant importation exemption is the “least restrictive means” does not mean it is.
In other words, a psychedelic religion seeking to challenge the DEA’s assumptions should not simply let the DEA dictate or frame the issues. Why? Because the DEA has it wrong. Let’s walk through the analysis.
Imagine you just asked (not applied – just asked) for exemption. The DEA, under its current policies, would presuppose it is not dealing with a religion or a religious group. [Why?] The DEA would deny the exemption. [Why?] The DEA would request you fill out its forms. [Why?] Provide a raft of data. [Why?] Sit for interviews. [Why?] The DEA requests this on the premise that it is going to determine, amongst other things, if your group is a religion. [Why?] And the DEA will also determine if your practice is sincere. [Why?]
Consider this: The DEA investigates and makes its own determination on the validity of religion and the sincerity of its practice. If the DEA determines, as it did in Soul Quest’s instance, that your group is not a religion, or it determines your practice is insincere, it will deny you the exemption. But, from where does DEA, a police agency, derive this power? In what statute or appellate decision is the DEA’s espoused belief that it has the right to investigate and to certify religion in the United States found? Doesn’t the First Amendment demand that the DEA presume the religion is valid and its practitioners sincere? Wouldn’t anything less be an affront to the guaranteed protection of fundamental freedoms accorded by the First Amendment?
If imagination helps context, consider if the issue were Catholics having to prove both Catholicism and the sincerity of its practice to a police officer, as a precondition to import or to consume Eucharist wafers. This would be abhorrent to the First Amendment, would it not? Next, imagine that the same police officer approved Catholicism, but still denied the Eucharist because he found your practice of Catholicism insincere (your transgression: not being at Mass last Sunday). A police agency preventing access to Eucharist because of the officer’s arbitrary assessment would even more offend the First Amendment, would it not? Yet, this is present DEA policy. What’s worse, the DEA does this with no objective standards.
Readers must understand, the DEA absolutely has a role to play in the nation’s drug regulatory scheme. It likewise does properly involve itself in scheduled substance importation and tracking. In this context, contact between the DEA and religious groups engaged in the importation of psychedelic sacrament is neither unexpected nor unwelcomed. For example, pharmaceutical companies and medical practitioners are well acquainted with the paperwork and practices that come with the importation and storage of scheduled substances. But those are, compared to assessing religion, very mechanical and objective functions for the agency. Religion is far too ephemeral and Constitutionally protected for a police agency to engage without clear parameters and metrics. And that is the point, even assuming the DEA were authorized to assess religion, it would still need objective metrics, of which it presently has none. In the absence of objective standards, its decisions on religion would be (and are) subjective and applied unequally.
Even if somehow the practice of DEA religious assessment were deemed First Amendment compliant, the DEA would still then have to contend with the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses of the Constitution, two places where subjectivity combined with government intrusion have not fared well. If the DEA does not have published objective standards, then every investigation it conducts into religion is by definition subjective. In every one of those cases, the decisions will be made (and presently are being made) by field agents with no training in religious practices or theology—cops arbitrarily approving and disapproving religions.
The Solution on the Religion Question
This may seem odd, but the DEA being mired in the religion question is a little not its fault. The DEA was created by President Nixon to assist in enforcement of the new Controlled Substances Act, but it was never given instruction or authority over religion. Making matters more complicated, although it sets many of its own policies, the DEA answers to the United States Department of Justice (USDOJ), and neither have ever put forth a cogent and logical policy on religious exemption. The favorable ayahuasca cases, especially the 2006 case, Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, 546 U.S. 418 (2006), caught the DEA off guard, but it never put in the time to work through the problem.
There is a single solution that solves both the problem of helping the DEA to avoid having to act as religious police and helping to arrive at the true least restrictive means to effectuate the DEA’s legitimate governmental interest of preventing diversion of controlled substances outside of the comprehensive regulatory scheme established by Congress. And, no, total prohibition as the DEA advocates is not the solution. Rather, the DEA should abandon its entire exemption policy.
Instead, the DEA should reduce its religious assessments to no more than requiring an attestation of religious intention and sincerity of belief, signed under oath and under penalty of perjury (the DEA could still mandate inspection of storage facilities and other non-religious aspects). The attestation would include details like: name, address, phone number, and other neutral data, much like what pharmaceutical companies or medical professionals provide.
Under this practice, the DEA’s need to track and verify would remain satisfied. Upon exchange of the attestation, the DEA should release the sacrament to the applicant. If the DEA has doubts, it then can refer cases to the US Department of Justice for its exercise of proper discretion, including possible investigation. If things are found inaccurate from the attestation, USDOJ would remain free to charge the parties involved (plus charge a bonus felony for the false attestation). Such an arrangement would keep the DEA out of religion, while still enabling the agency to function. Plus, attestation is a far less restrictive means than the DEA’s current policy of wholesale refusal.
A simple attestation policy (coupled with the DEA’s normal investigatory functions) is what RFRA requires—a burden on the government, not on the religion. Such a practice follows the proper flow of a RFRA analysis: It presupposes religious practice, places the burden on the government to prove otherwise, protects the individual religious right even during the investigation, and only resolves in favor of the government if the government proves its case as RFRA requires.
Will Soul Quest or any other psychedelic religious group argue these points to a court engaged in reviewing DEA policy? We will have to wait to see. Since there are a few psychedelic religion cases pending in various US courts at the moment, perhaps the time is coming.
In this week’s Solidarity Fridays episode, the crew of five from last week has been whittled to two, with Joe and the new guy (David) getting into a discussion about cynicism, mysticism, and well-being.
They first look at Senate Bill 519 again, after a listener wrote in to correct them about their understanding of social-sharing and to suggest that they were too critical in last week’s episode. And they wonder: Have we, as a subculture, become so cynical that we can’t see any progress as good enough? Has the perfect too often become the enemy of the good?
They then discuss an article stressing the need to acknowledge and attempt to study the mystical (weird) part of psychedelics that can’t be measured by changes in neuroscience, with David telling us the story of his path to Psychedelics Today involving a near-death experience with a space heater, witnessing an exorcism, and a mushroom-inspired “experience of madness.”
And they talk about a lot more: A study that measured improvements in well-being and the difficulty in defining such an open concept (the word of the day is “eudaimonia”), the star-studded panel Joe moderated this week, Kabbalah, permaculture, and the idea of thinking outside of financial terms with different forms of capital.
Notable Quotes
“We have a choice. Do I stand my ground and do I insist on getting everything that I deserve, on insisting on the change that is right, on the change that is needed that we all know is what we deserve? Or do we make these political deals and compromises and concessions and sacrifices, again, just because it’s a step in the right direction?” -David
“How do we have faith in all these various institutions that have done so much really gross stuff, and continue to participate in this democracy that doesn’t feel that way sometimes? And that’s the cynicism that I feel regularly, but then I go, “Okay, I can feel cynical, but the only way to make good change is to be involved.’” -Joe
“If capitalism can be used (and its meeting point with psychedelics) to create a model that enables mass scaling, and safe, responsible use, and accessibility to psychedelics, because of the mass scale of mental illness and ontological crisis and desperation; well, okay, then maybe that’s a pill worth taking. Because boy, do we need something right now that’s not just a Xanax or a Prozac or a 45-minute talk session. We need more than that on an individual and societal level. So I’d be willing to kind of dance with the devil of hyper-capitalism if it actually enables that kind of merging of minds to happen.” -David
In this episode, Joe interviews Daniel Moler: author, artist, comic book creator, and sanctioned teacher of the Pachakuti Mesa Tradition (a form of Peruvian shamanism).
Moler talks about the Psychonaut Presents comic series he writes and illustrates, which delves into his experiences with consciousness exploration, most notably in his first ayahuasca experience and the subsequent experiences he’s had through his shamanic training. And he talks about his pathway to shamanism, the attention shamanism places on the act of service and bringing wisdom from the experience back into the world, and the importance of finding your flow and aligning with its current.
He discusses San Pedro: how much he loves it, how he uses it in conjunction with Singado, and how it enhances his facilitation work. And he talks about Alan Moore, the Kamasqa Curanderismo Tradition, Terence McKenna, Aleister Crowley, Chaos Magick, Rick Strassman, how Christian and Catholic-based iconography became a part of Indigenous traditions, and how the worlds of science and traditional Indigenous culture could learn from each other for the betterment of all.
Notable Quotes
“There are Christian shamans. There are Islamic shamans. There’s shamans from various types of pagan traditions. So it doesn’t have to be locked into this framework of: ‘Oh, it’s only Indigenous tribal peoples that have a shamanic framework.’ Because shamanism is just about having that direct experience with the world of soul and then expressing that, bringing that out into the world in a way that helps benefit the planet. There’s a lot of controversy around the word, but I’ve, over the years, just learned to kind of shun that. It’s the word we have right now. It’s what we’re using.”
“When you have found your soul’s purpose, you have found a way to operate in the universe where the universe works along with you to help align your life in the direction that you would like it to lead.”
“A vital component of shamanism is that everything has a consciousness. Everything is alive, and especially these medicines. They’re not tools. Some people refer to these as shamanic tools. That would be like referring to my wife as a tool, or to you as a tool in this conversation. You’re a consciousness and I’m a consciousness and we’re two people participating together.” “Don’t just follow some kind of ritual paradigm, because it may not work. You’ve got to do what works for you, so find a method and a formula that works. And you know it’s going to work and that it’s going to be valid for you because every time you do it, it works. You have repeated, repeatable results.”
Daniel Moler is an author, artist, and astral entrepreneur. He is writer, artist, and creator of the hit comic seriesPsychonaut Presents, the author ofShamanic Qabalah: A Mystical Path to Uniting the Tree of Life & the Great Work from Llewellyn Worldwide, as well as the psychedelic urban fantasyRED Mass, and the Terence McKenna guidebookMachine Elves 101. He has also made contributions in Ross Heaven’s bookCactus of Mystery: The Shamanic Powers of the Peruvian San Pedro Cactus andLlewellyn’s 2020, 2021, and 2022 Magical Almanacs, among numerous other articles in journals and magazines around the world. In April 2019, he was noted asAuthor of the Month by best-selling author and researcher Graham Hancock. Daniel is a sanctioned teacher of the Pachakuti Mesa Tradition, a form of Peruvian shamanism brought to the U.S. by respected curandero don Oscar Miro-Quesada. Visit Daniel online atdanielmolerweb.com.
Defining transpersonal psychology, exploring its history, and examining how it relates to psychedelic experiences.
Transpersonal psychology, the branch of psychology that concerns itself with the study of spiritual experience and expanded states of consciousness, has often been excluded from traditional psychology programs. However, as we traverse the reaches of the psychedelic renaissance and interest in the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness continues to grow, understanding transpersonal psychology is of growing importance.
What Is Transpersonal Psychology?
Sometimes transpersonal psychology is referred to as “spiritual psychology” or “the psychology of spirituality” in that it is the branch of psychology that concerns itself with the domain of human experience that is not limited to ordinary, waking consciousness, transcending our typically defined ego-boundaries. As a discipline, transpersonal psychology honors the existence and latent wisdom contained within non-ordinary experiences, concerning itself with unravelling the implications of their meaning for the individual, but also for the greater whole. It attempts to combine age-old insights from ancient wisdom traditions with modern Western psychology, trying to encapsulate the full spectrum of the human psyche.
Prior to the inception of transpersonal psychology, the idea that psychologists should study spirituality was unheard of. Compared with traditional psychological approaches, transpersonal psychology takes a non-pathologizing approach to spiritual experience and non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Reflecting on the origins of the discipline, psychedelic researcher and author, Dr. James Fadiman, offers, “Transpersonal psychology, in its simplest definition, is concerned with understanding the full scope of consciousness, primarily within the human species, but not limited to that which can be described easily by Western science, religious or mystical traditions, nor by Indigenous categorizations.”
“Unlike the rest of psychology, it has not attempted to use the trappings of scientific method to make it more acceptable,” Fadiman adds. “As a result, it has often been identified pejoratively as part of the “new age” counterculture, since it freely investigated states of consciousness and approaches to personal growth and development that were not being looked at by the other psychologies.”
Although Fadiman is generally more well-known for his pioneering work in microdosing, he was one of the prominent figures in shaping the early transpersonal movement. Together with psychologist Robert Frager, Fadiman co-founded the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in 1975, now known as Sofia University.
The Birth of a Spiritual Psychology
Transpersonal psychology was formally launched in 1971 by psychologists Abraham Maslow and Anthony Sutich. It emerged as a “Fourth Force” within psychology, with the other three forces being cognitive behaviorism, psychoanalytic/Freudian psychology, and humanistic psychology.
In the 1950s, American psychology was dominated by the schools of cognitive behaviorism and Freudian psychology, however, many felt that these approaches to understanding the human psyche were limited and this growing dissatisfaction led to the birth of humanistic psychology. Humanistic psychology was closely linked to the transpersonal movement in that it was also founded by Maslow and many of the same individuals.
No longer a psychology of psychopathology, humanistic psychology concerned itself with the study of healthy individuals, focusing on human growth and potential. One of Maslow’s main qualms with behaviorism was the limitation of applying animal models to human behavior as this approach would only serve to illuminate the functions that we share with given animals. As such, he felt that behaviorism did not serve to enhance our understanding of the higher functions of our consciousness such as love, freedom, art, and beyond. Additionally, Maslow felt Freudian psychoanalysis was lacking due to its tendency to reduce the psyche to instinctual drives and draw on models of psychopathology.
Humanistic psychology attempted to take a holistic approach to human existence, concerning itself with self-actualization and the growth of love, fulfillment, and autonomy in individuals. Despite the popularity of the discipline, and the new “Human Potential Movement” that spawned around it, Maslow and others felt that there were some critical aspects lacking in humanistic psychology. Namely, the acknowledgement of the role of spirituality in people’s lives.
In 1967, a working group including the likes of Abraham Maslow, Anthony Sutich, Stanislav Grof, James Fadiman, Miles Vich, and Sonya Margulies met in Menlo Park, California with the aim of developing a new psychology that encapsulated the full spectrum of human experience, including non-ordinary states of consciousness. In this discussion, Stanislav Grof suggested the new discipline or Fourth Force should be called “transpersonal psychology.” Thereafter, the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology was launched in 1969, and the Association of Transpersonal Psychology was founded in 1972.
Despite the formal beginnings of transpersonal psychology in the middle of the twentieth century, the movement has its conceptual roots in the early work of William James and Carl Jung, psychologists who were mutually interested in the spiritual reaches of the human psyche. Touching upon the relevance of Jung’s contributions to the field in his book Beyond the Brain, Dr. Stanislav Grof, one of the founding fathers of transpersonal psychology and pioneer in the field of psychedelic research, described Jung as, “The first representative of the transpersonal orientation in psychology.”
William James, father of American psychology, is also perceived to be one of the founders of modern transpersonal thought, making the first recorded use of the term “trans-personal” in a 1905 lecture. However, James’ use of the term was more narrow than the way it is used today. Not only did James’ philosophy contribute to the development of transpersonal psychology, his early experimentations with psychoactive substances, in particular nitrous oxide, have also added substantially to the psychology of mystical experiences and the scientific study of consciousness.
Reflecting on his experience in The Varieties of Religious Experience, James wrote, “Our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.” It is these very forms of “entirely different” consciousness that transpersonal psychology concerns itself with.
Understanding the Nature of Transpersonal Experience
The term transpersonal literally means beyond (trans) the personal, and as such, transpersonal experiences are those which serve to evaporate and transcend our ordinary, waking consciousness. Although transpersonal experiences are sometimes induced spontaneously, they can also be brought on by contact with nature, engaging in contemplative practices like meditation, sex, music, and even by difficult psychological experiences. They can take place in a variety of forms, whether it be a spontaneously induced mystical state, out-of-body or near-death experience, a unitative state elicited by psychedelics, or even an alien encounter experience.
Transpersonal experiences are inherently transformative in that they usually serve to broaden our self-conception, often providing us with a broader cosmological perspective. Take for example, the experience of ego death, or ego-dissolution as it is referred to in the scientific literature, a type of transpersonal experience that can be triggered by the use of psychedelics. In the ego death experience, the ordinary sense of self fades into an experience of unity with ultimate reality or “cosmic consciousness.”
Such experiences are both fearful and enlightening, but are thought to be one of the reasons why the psychedelic experience is so transformative for so many people. Viewed through the transpersonal lens, ego death tends to be understood as a beneficial, healing process in which an individual is able to let go of old ego structures that are no longer of service, making space for new, more integral ways of being.
Transpersonal experience is not limited to the world as we know it to exist in everyday reality. In a transpersonal experience, one might find themselves projected out of their body, viewing remote events in vivid detail or having encounters with entities from other dimensions. Describing the nature of such states in their book Spiritual Emergency, Stanislav Grof and the late Christina Grof, suggest that they include elements that western culture does not accept as objectively real, such as deities, demons, mythological figures, entities, and spirit guides. As such, they write, “In the transpersonal state, we do not differentiate between the world of “consensus reality”, or the conventional everyday world, and the mythological realm of archetypal forms.”
Such experiences facilitate a sense of harmony and meaning, connection and unity, and self-transcendence which are associated with positive effects such as heightened feelings of love and compassion. However, that is not to say that transpersonal states always have positive consequences, as they can also be incredibly destabilizing and have the ability to cause psychological distress, often referred to as a “spiritual emergenc(y)” in the transpersonal literature.
Why the Need for Transpersonal Psychology?
Science, as it stands today, is limited in its purview. Mainstream science and psychology is largely dominated by materialist approaches to consciousness and mental health. Within the materialist paradigm, matter is considered primary to consciousness, which is believed to be an accidental by-product of complex arrangements of matter. According to Fadiman, “The problem for mainstream psychology has been the unmeasurable core of transpersonal’s interest, namely, human consciousness.”
Fadiman suggests that mainstream psychology has become more and more “scientistic.” That is, it has become dogmatic in its belief that science and the materialist reductionist values that underlie it are the only way of objectively understanding reality. “Psychology is more concerned with statistical significance than personal utility, and its subject matter now includes a remarkable amount of research with animals, where their consciousness can be most easily ignored,” he shares.
Fadiman reflects that transpersonal psychology’s interest in the nature of consciousness and states of consciousness that extend beyond personal identity makes it “at its very best, the ugly stepsister that one leaves at home when going out to join material sciences parties.” Sharing an example of this, Fadiman pointed to the American Psychological Association’s refusal to grant accreditation to a transpersonal graduate school.
“This was not because of the quality of its dissertations which were rated quite highly or for the span and variety of its courses nor because of the financial status of the institution,” Fadiman continues. Rather, “It was turned down solely on the basis of its fundamental subject matter.” In essence, it boils down to the question of materialism, as many transpersonal psychologists believe in some form or another that consciousness cannot be explained by processes of the brain alone.
Further, Grof describes the dominant scientific perspective as “ethnocentric” in that “it has been formulated and promoted by Western materialistic scientists, who consider their own perspective to be superior to that of any other human group at any time of history.” However, he suggests that transpersonal psychology, on the other hand, has made significant advances in remedying the ethnocentric biases of mainstream science through its cultural sensitivity towards the spiritual traditions of ancient and native cultures, the acknowledgement of the ontological reality of transpersonal experiences, and their value.
The Relevance of Transpersonal Psychology in the Psychedelic Renaissance
The resurgence of interest in the medical, psychological, and transformational benefits of psychedelics has naturally generated increased awareness of transpersonal states and their value for the health of the human psyche. When it comes to the study of spirituality and non-ordinary states of consciousness, transpersonal psychology has long paved the way, validating the veracity and psychological benefits of such states. As such, it offers itself as an important reservoir of knowledge when trying to understand the healing potentials of psychedelics within therapeutic contexts, but also when trying to understand their broader socio-cultural implications.
In spite of not being widely recognized, transpersonal psychology has long led the scientific endeavor to understand the totality of the human psyche through its embrace of non-ordinary states of consciousness that have hitherto been dismissed as “psychotic” or merely “hallucinations” by mainstream science. Fadiman explains that transpersonal psychology continues to take seriously and without judgment the results reported by individuals working with psychedelics. “For example, almost all indigenous cultures who have used psychedelics for hundreds perhaps thousands of years report that as one’s consciousness expands beyond the perimeters of the identity, that there are other beings, other realms of existence which are met, often across cultures with identical descriptions,” says Fadiman.
The conceptual frameworks of the dominant model are inadequate when it comes to understanding non-ordinary experiences, including those elicited by psychedelics. As such, Fadiman suggests that, “As we continue to develop more accurate maps of inner space, it is likely that transpersonal psychology, with its emphasis on subjective as well as objective observation will continue to play a prominent role.”
This article was updated on July 19, 2021 to correct the years the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology and Association of Transpersonal Psychology were founded.
About the Author
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer in the psychedelic space. Since 2018, she has been working for the fiercely independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany, and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine has written for Psychedelics Today, Chacruna Institute for Plant Medicines, Lucid News, Cosmic Sister, Psychable, and Microdosing Guru. She is currently pursuing an MSc in Spirituality, Consciousness, and Transpersonal Psychology at the Alef Trust with the future aim of working as a psychedelic practitioner. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, ethically-integral, and meaningful way.
While they start on the magic side of things with Aleister Crowley and early mescaline trip reports, they mostly discuss prohibition and new models for legalization, with Vayne giving us a nice window into how Britain has historically handled the drug war, culminating in the era of Spice bringing them to the point where essentially, anything that stimulates your nervous system has become illegal (when there is a clear intention to get high).
Vayne tells his Crowley-mirroring story about being banned from giving a presentation at the Oxford Psychedelic Society for admitting he has used drugs, poses an interesting way to consider drugs and their legality, and ponders how we can get our prohibition-obsessed authorities to not only empower people to make their own decisions, but to also accept that people do these things for fun (and that’s ok). And lastly, he talks about how psychedelics, set and setting, and practiced rituals and traditions all work together as technologies to enhance and inspire a magical experience.
Notable Quotes
“Once we use terms like ‘illegal drugs’ very frequently, it’s quite important, I think, to unpick some of that language. Drugs, in and of themselves- these chemical compounds, are not and can never be legal or illegal. What’s legal or illegal is whether or not you or I are allowed to possess those things, whether we can manufacture those things, whether we can supply or exchange those things to others. So it’s our behavior that’s about whether it’s licit or illicit, and the substances themselves are ‘controlled substances.’ So there are no illegal drugs. That betrays a misunderstanding of the way these substances are in culture.”
“We say to people: ‘You can smoke weed if you’re feeling really suicidal or if you’re feeling really very ill,’ and moving from that to a point where we can say, ‘Actually, you can smoke weed because you might like it’- that’s a radical thing for Protestant and post-Protestant cultures to go through because our relationship with joy, fun, the body, [and] material substance is deeply wounded.” “We do have to find a way to intelligently deal with the fact that we live on a planet with all of these substances, all of these medicines of various descriptions and people want to engage with those for all kinds of different reasons. We can’t simply say: ‘This is forbidden.’”
“They don’t need, necessarily, some dude in a crazy hat with feathers on it to tell them what to do, because they know that the mushrooms and the relationship between the mushrooms and their psyche and their evolutionary pathway- that’s where the power lies. …They don’t need to know what the traditional songs of their ancestors are, because this is the traditional song of them, in that moment. And it’s about feeding the flame of the tradition rather than worshipping the ashes of it. And we’re just surrounded by these broken forms and these tiny cultural clues, but with the help of other communities who’ve been less disconnected from this medicine, and also with our own guides and spirits and perhaps a good dose of good fortune, for us to recreate, re-find these things, and to make those fresh and new in every moment and every encounter- that’s the way we’ve got to go with this.”
Julian Vayne is widely recognized as one of Britain’s leading occultists. He is an independent scholar and author with over three decades of experience within esoteric culture: from Druidry to Chaos Magic, from indigenous Shamanism through to Freemasonry and Witchcraft. He is a senior member of the Magical Pact of the Illuminates of Thanateros, a co-organizer of the psychedelic conference, Breaking Convention, a Trustee of The Psychedelic Museum Project, a founding member of the post-prohibition think-tank, Transform, sits on the academic board of The Journal of Psychedelic Studies, and has been a visiting lecturer at several British universities. He is an advocate of post-prohibition culture and supporter of psychedelic prisoners through the Scales project. Julian facilitates psychedelic ceremony, as well as providing one-to-one psychedelic integration sessions and support. He is the author of Getting Higher: The Manual of Psychedelic Ceremony, and since 2011, he has been sharing his work through his blog, The Blog of Baphomet.
In this episode, Joe interviews Professor of American Religious History and Cultures at Emory University, podcaster, and author of Don’t Think About Death: A Memoir on Mortality, Gary Laderman.
He talks about challenging our notion of what “religious” means: how “religious” doesn’t have to be linked to traditional dogmatic structures and how conventional conceptualizations around religion can actually close people off from possibly deeply meaningful experiences. He talks about the “rise of the nones”- his term for the growing demographic of “spiritual but not religious” people who combine aspects of different religions to create their own, or don’t consider themselves to have a religion at all, and use the rituals, myths, lessons, and transcendence attached to experiences to create the same effects that our ancestors achieved from traditional religious structures.
They also discuss how psychedelics work in our lives outside of the mystical, Esalen, Lady Gaga, the culture built around medicine and the religious authority we see in doctors, how religion has affected our language and how we learn, and the various ways it seeps into our understanding of sex, our bodies, and death.
Notable Quotes
“[I’m] just really asking people to consider the possibility that religious life extends far beyond how we normally see it in the media or think about it. It’s more than going to the church or reading The Bible.”
“Back in the day, going to Grateful Dead concerts or maybe now, Phish, Burning Man- these are all obvious examples of tying some of this stuff together. You can’t avoid the religious connotations of these kinds of activities, just in how people describe them who go and attend and what they bring back from those commitments and experiences.” “You want to talk about what ultimately matters in our lives in how we bring order and meaning and stave off chaos and suffering? We should talk about pharmaceutical companies and prescription drugs.” “What’s interesting about studying the sacred is that nobody agrees upon it.”
Gary Laderman, Goodrich C. White Professor of American Religious History and Cultures, is the author of the new book, Don’t Think About Death: A Memoir on Mortality (Deeds Publishing, 2020), and hosts the podcast, Sacrilegious.
Laderman was also a founder of the online religion magazines, Religion Dispatches (created and initially directed with Sheila Davaney in the early 2000s), and started Sacred Matters on his own. He is continuing to research, write, and teach on the sacred in American life generally, and is currently working on a book project exploring religion and drugs, the focus of a new course first taught in 2017, “Sacred Drugs.”
In this episode, Michelle and Joe interview Ralph Blumenthal, 45-year New York Times contributor and author of The Believer: Alien Encounters, Hard Science, and the Passion of John Mack (which inspired one of ourmore popular recent blogs, and you can win a copy of!).
They talk about John Mack: legendary Harvard professor who did breathwork with Stan Grof at Esalen and became interested in the mystery of alien abduction, which led him to write 2 bestselling books, appear on Oprah (who is probably an alien*), become a pioneer in the world of alien abductions, and die while immersed in afterlife studies, only to reportedly visit friends later on. Mack’s notoriety came from trusting the stories he was hearing, trying to help people make sense of it all, and taking a big interest in how these experiences seemed to transform so many of the abductees. Sounds a lot like powerful psychedelic experiences and integration work leading towards growth, doesn’t it?
So sit back, pause that X-Files episode, light one up on this high holiday, and get really deep into the world of aliens. Learn about the government’s secret Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, the Ariel school incident, Avi Loeb’s Oumuamua theory, out-of-body experiences, shapeshifters, and more! Ponder how Blumenthal “accidentally” leaves questions unanswered about the government experimenting with DMT as a way of communicating with aliens. Contemplate why the government is suddenly so forthcoming with UFO data. Think about how today is 420 and this is episode 240…
The truth is out there, folks.
*This viewpoint is not that of Psychedelics Today, but merely of this high Show Notes writer.
Notable Quotes
On Mack doing breathwork with Stan Grof: “He was awakened to a different world, a spiritual world, a world of other realities than the one he was familiar with, and as I say in my book, he said, ‘Stan Grof opened up my psyche and the UFOs flew in.’”
“It’s no spoiler to say that my book does not provide the answer to the mystery of alien abduction, and I acknowledge that. I shed some light on it, perhaps, and what I like to say is that at least I’m comfortable saying that I know what it isn’t. It’s not mental illness, it’s not hoaxes (by and large), it’s not fabrication, it’s not the delusion of crowds. It’s something else. It’s something that is very real to a lot of people from different walks of life [and] different ages, and there really is no good explanation for what has happened to these people.”
“What do you say about the 2-year old children who tell these stories? You know, ‘Little man fly me up in the sky.’ ‘I go up in the sky.’ These 2-year-old kids: have they read UFO books? Are they influenced by UFO movies?”
“Skeptics have not taken the time to read the literature. They don’t know the cases. So all they can do is say, ‘Ah, that’s ridiculous.’ Of course it’s ridiculous! We all agree it’s ridiculous. We all agree it’s not possible. …We all agree that these stories that people are telling are not possible in our reality. They’re completely crazy. And yet, there’s no easy way to explain them away.”
Ralph Blumenthal was a reporter for The New York Times from 1964 to 2009, and has written seven books based on investigative crime reporting and cultural history. His latest book The Believer: Alien Encounters, Hard Science, and the Passion of John Mack was published by High Road Books of the University of New Mexico Press on March 15, 2021. It’s the first biography of Pulitzer Prize-winning Harvard Psychiatrist John E. Mack (1929-2004) who risked an esteemed career to investigate stupefying accounts of human abductions by aliens. Vanity Fairexcerpted the work-in-progress in 2013.
In this episode, Joe interviews Dena Justice, who uses her unprecedented 4th appearance on Psychedelics Today to not talk a whole lot about neuro-linguistic programming or ways to beat anxiety. Instead, she blasts out of the psychedelic closet and opens up like few guests have before, taking us on the harrowing and life-changing journey of the last 6 years of her growth.
She talks about how her first MDMA experience made her realize how many limiting beliefs, insecurities, and issues with never feeling safe all came from childhood abuse and could be traced back to one specific morning. She discusses the “ages and stages of Dena,” and getting to know her childhood self, Little Dena, and how Little Dena, her 15-year-old self, and her future self influence her today. And she talks about the breakthroughs and realizations from each subsequent experience (MDMA, LSD, and ayahuasca), and how each was just another step leading to her year of “energy and life cleanup,” culminating in the most profound psychedelic experience of her life, where she found the frequency of safety she’d been seeking her whole life.
The first few minutes of this episode feel tense and you may be cautious to continue, but stick with it- like many beneficial psychedelic experiences, you may have to go through some rough stuff to get to the gold, but in the end, it’s worth it. This one’s pretty powerful.
Notable Quotes
“This whole morning as a 4-year-old is ingrained in my memory. I remember what I was wearing, I remember the way my Mom looked, I remember the sunlight streaming into the living room through our front windows. …And I’m standing at the top of the flight of the stairs, screaming at her and sobbing because she’s not hearing me. And in that moment, I created an entire set of beliefs that literally ran my show until 3 months ago.”
“I look at what I’ve done since I started really utilizing psychedelics intentionally, and my whole life changed. In the last 5 years, my whole life is completely different than where I was in November of 2015, and I don’t look at the person in the mirror and recognize her anymore the way I was familiar with myself before. I’m like, ‘Where did this woman come from? She’s pretty amazing.’”
“I literally saw all of this energy moving and I traveled up one thread of this energy to a point of light, and I articulated it so clearly- I said, ‘Wow. I found the frequency of safety. I can see it and I can feel it in my entire being, and this is what I’ve been seeking my entire life.‘”
“Everybody who has trauma should be able to experience this kind of healing. Everybody should get to feel this free from the past that has tormented them.”
Dena’s training as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor, and coach started at age 7 when she took her first social-emotional training program. That started years of training in conflict management and mediation, leadership, communication, facilitation, and more. By 15, she was facilitating personal development courses.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe are joined once again from Mexico by Michelle Janikian, and let’s take a moment to do what wasn’t done last week: welcome Michelle to the podcast, as she will be joining the guys on SFs for the foreseeable future, and possibly on other podcasts soon as well. Welcome to the revolution, Michelle!
As you’d expect, they discuss the news: Norway’s plan to decriminalize personal drug use based on recommendations from the U.N. and W.H.O. and why that may be related to Norway’s high rate of drug-related deaths (or maybe even a high suicide rate), a new bill in California to not only decriminalize psychedelics (including MDMA and LSD, and excluding peyote) but expunge records as well, a new Massachusetts bill to decriminalize all drugs and study psychedelics, a study where researchers achieved real-time communication with lucid dreamers, and Alex Jones’ (likely true) claim that government officials regularly use DMT to communicate with freaking aliens.
The most-discussed articles though, are Vice’s post about how psychedelic therapy needs to embrace the mystical side of things, and Tim Ferriss’ recent blog, pleading people to follow more ethical, safer, and more environmentally-friendly paths in their explorations of different medicines. They also talk about Ferriss’ concept of a minimum effective dose, the progress of cannabis legalization in Mexico, using caution with frameworks, Pascal’s Wager, how the idea of a psychedelic community is becoming antiquated, and whether or not Kyle is regularly astral projecting without realizing it.
Notable Quotes
“This concept of political capital- you only have so many ‘politics tokens’ to put in the machine, and being a politician, you kind of have to play the game of not only influencing what you and your constituency want but [also] ‘how do I get re-elected too?’ It’s not spending political capital to be anti-drug in most states. [To] be a really hardcore prohibitionist, you actually gain political capital in a lot of ways. But putting your neck on the line for something like this is quite risky for a politician, so, good on ya!” -Joe
“It just doesn’t fit into that narrative where it’s like: ‘Can psychedelics revolutionize mental health?’ Yes, but not just help people and cure, heal- we have to change the way we think about the human experience and we have to let in so many other weird, unworldly experiences to really, fully– like, yea, it’s going to revolutionize mental health. It’s going to revolutionize everything if we really integrate it and take all aspects of it into consideration. But that’s really hard for doctors and these psychiatrists in-training to really do- they just want a new medication to help their patients. Do they really want to like, rethink reality? [sarcastically:] That’s just for weirdos like us.” -Michelle
“Sometimes when I’m in conversations with other clinicians and it’s so pathology-oriented, I’m like, do we need to keep continuing that language? Could there be other ways of viewing and seeing this? How [can] psychedelics- or not even psychedelics- just extraordinary experiences in general help shift our view of what it means to be human? What does it mean to be well in the world? Do I always need to be sick when I come to a mental health professional? Do I always need some sort of diagnosis? I think these are the questions that my exceptional experiences have made me think about- traditional systems and how they’ve really shifted over the years.” -Kyle
“The dream world, to me, has always been so fascinating, because it’s like the natural psychedelic everyone has every night. Dreams are so weird. There’s no psychedelic that really touches how weird dreams are. And yet we go to that place every night.” -Michelle
Science has demonstrated that psychedelic compounds “can occasion mystical-type experiences having substantial and sustained personal meaning and spiritual significance.” Scientific surveys indicate that a statistically significant number of people have a stronger belief in a higher power after taking psychedelics. Science is starting to “prove” these things that practitioners have known for thousands of years, and society is rapidly redefining its relationship to psychedelic sacraments and medicines.
As more and more people begin taking psychedelics, an ever-growing number of them will start asking spiritual and religious questions that arise out of their experience. Our goal in this class is to open some space for these conversations and to help educate people about the legal risks that such explorations may involve.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Dr. Matthew Johnson: Professor at Johns Hopkins, writer of the recent paper, “Consciousness, Religion, and Gurus: Pitfalls of Psychedelic Medicine,” and researcher (with others) on several trials through Johns Hopkins involving psilocybin: for smoking cessation, anorexia, mood and effects of early-stage Alzheimer’s, opioid addiction, post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome, co-morbid alcoholism with depression, and soon, LSD for chronic pain.
Johnson talks about his paper, which largely deals with the ambiguity of the term “consciousness” and how it applies to David Chalmers’ hard problem, and asks many philosophical questions: What is consciousness? What is phenomenal consciousness? Are things that seem like you actually similar? Do they have similar experiences or agency? How would you even know? If you built a robot that displays perfectly human-like qualities similar to yours and appears to have agency and experience, does it? Can you prove that it doesn’t?
They also talk about how clinicians and investigators bringing their own religious and spiritual frameworks to psychedelic and breathwork sessions can create unnecessary expectations and narratives and make many people think the experience isn’t for them, the theory that the default mode network decoupling just makes you feel not quite yourself and that this action can be observed with other non-psychedelic drugs, access consciousness, how it’s ok to feel things that can’t be proven scientifically, shamans, gurus, and the idea of enlightenment, the nuance in everything, and the beneficial sense of ownership people feel after getting through a challenging psychedelic session.
Notable Quotes
“It may very well be that the default mode network is a key or one of the keys that explains quintessential psychedelic effects, although it’s also possible that it’s not so special- that it explains maybe some of the effects sometimes, and that these aren’t so quintessentially psychedelic.”
“You don’t have to pretend like you have the answers. I don’t know, frankly, I think we’d all be better off if physicians had more humility. …There’s a whole lot about the human body we don’t know.” “Whether we’re talking about a Richard Dawkins style- you know, kind of a hard atheist who might be inclined to be of the spaghetti monster variety-appreciating person, or whether it be [a] Muslim- like, do we want a statue of a Buddha to tell either of those people that ‘this is not for you’ if they’re incredibly suffering from end-of-life anxiety, if they’re suffering from a decades-long addiction, if they’re depressed and are at risk of suicide? I don’t know, it just seems like we really need to think: how is this going to play out in the world and how are we really going to help people? Do we really want someone to think, ‘Oh no, this stuff is for hippies or new age folks’? They might be a political conservative, they might be a veteran, they might be someone who would never touch an illicit drug in their life. Do we want those types of people saying, ‘This is not for me’? I just see these as human experiences.” “One of the reasons why psychedelics and probably breathwork can be so effective is that people are doing their own heavy lifting. …At least in the type of work that [I do in] clinical research with psychedelics, people come out feeling they have done (rightfully so) the heavy lifting. It’s not like, ‘Oh, I took some pill, and thanks to Pfizer, who was able to figure out a way to manipulate my serotonin system, I’m feeling better. Thanks to Doc So-and-so who knew that I needed Lexapro rather than Prozac.’ It’s like, ‘No, you faced your own demons, dude. You did the hard work. You cried your heart out about that thing you did you don’t feel good about and you came out with a laundry list of what you need to fix with your life, and with this renewed sense because you feel like you’ve earned it.’”
Dr. Matthew W. Johnson, Ph.D., is Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins. He is one of the world’s most published scientists on the human effects of psychedelics, and has conducted seminal research in the behavioral economics of drug use, addiction, and risk behavior. Dr. Johnson earned his Ph.D. in experimental psychology at the University of Vermont in 2004. Dr. Johnson is recognized for his research in behavioral economics, behavioral pharmacology, and behavior analysis. He has conducted seminal and widely cited research applying behavioral economic principles such as delay discounting and demand analysis to decision making within addiction, drug consumption, and risk behavior.
The story of John Mack, the Harvard psychiatrist who wanted to believe—and ended up introducing the entire culture to the possibility of transpersonal experiences.
“At their core Carlos’s encounters have brought about a profound spiritual opening, bringing him in contact with a divine light or energy, what he calls “Home,” which is the source of his personal healing and transformational powers. In our sessions, when he comes close to this light he becomes overwhelmed with emotions of awe and a longing to merge with the energy/light/being. Space and time dissolve, and he experiences himself as pure energy and light or consciousness in an endlessness of eternity, ‘a pure soul experience . . . I go back to the source because I’m not just human. I need to go back to the source in order to continue.’ Carlos, like so many abductees, has developed an acute ecological consciousness. He is deeply concerned with the earth and its fate. The question of whether this is an unintended by-product of a process that he, no more than any of us, can fathom, or is an integral part of the alien phenomenon, cannot, of course, be answered. Carlos clearly believes that the aliens, however awkward, or even brutal, their methods, are trying to arrest our destructive behavior.”
-Dr. John E.
Mack, M.D.
Abductions: Human Encounters with Aliens (1994)
Until many lines in, to us in the psychedelic community, the passage above reads exactly like insights from a psychedelic-assisted therapy or integration session. But to my surprise in my recent alien abduction reading, this was work being processed with abductees – or “experiencers” as they preferred to be called – by pioneering psychiatrist, John E. Mack, in the 1990s. Mack wasn’t only the Head of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, but also the winner of the Pulitzer Prize for A Prince of Our Disorder: The Life of T.E. Lawrence (his 1977 biography of “Lawrence of Arabia” ), and a fearless anti-war activist as well.
“John had always been so well regarded,” his former research associate and girlfriend Dominique Callimanopulos tells Psychedelics Today. “He was such a wunderkind in circles, such a bright light and leader in his field, and well known for his clinical perceptiveness and precision.”
So how does a Harvard psychiatrist get into the fringe world of alien abductions? It probably won’t surprise our readers that the story has its roots at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California. According to NY Times journalist Ralph Blumenthal’s upcoming biography on Mack, The Believer: Alien Encounters, Hard Science, and the Passion of John Mack (scheduled to come out in March 2021 on University of New Mexico Press), in 1987, Mack attended the “Frontiers of Health” conference at Esalen in which Stanislav Grof spoke about transpersonal psychology and hosted an unplanned Holotropic breathwork session for the group. It was Mack’s first time trying the consciousness-altering form of breathwork and he had a profound experience relating to the death of his mother when he was only nine months old, as well as his first truly transpersonal experience.
Mack continued his exploration and training with breathwork, and according to Blumenthal’s book, by 1989, he had become a “regular” participant in Grof’s breathwork modules. Elizabeth Gibson, co-founder of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork and co-author (with Mack and Grof) of the 2003 article, “Reflections on Breathwork and Alien Encounter Experiences,” remembers Mack’s involvement in the Grof breathwork group. On a Zoom call, she recalls that Mack was a facilitator at the first Holotropic breathwork session she had ever participated in, one of the “big weekend workshops” Stan and Christina Grof used to host. “There must have been 130, 140 people there that weekend,” Gibson recalls, “and John Mack was on the team with them [to help facilitate] and he brought with him a lot of the psychiatric residents that were then in training with him at Cambridge hospital.” Similarly, Callimanopulos recalls that Mack was part of a Grof breathwork “pod” that would meet a few times a year in different parts of the world for two weeks at a time. “That was a very strong bonding experience for all the people in his pod,” she says.
It turns out that Grof not only introduced Mack to breathwork and transpersonal experiences, but to the alien abduction phenomenon as well. In March 1988, at a breathwork training module at Pocket Ranch in California, Grof gave Mack a chapter on alien abductions from his and Christina’s upcoming anthology, Spiritual Emergence: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis (1989). “I have no idea why Stan thought I would be particularly interested in that subject,” Mack wrote in 2003. “I read the chapter with much interest, although I kept asking myself, ‘But is it true?’ Were people really being contacted by humanoid beings or the like?” Later in the same article, Mack wrote, “Through Breathwork I became open to the fact that the universe might be full of entities, which we call spirits, gods, archetypes, angels, mythic beings or whatever. The humanoids encountered by abduction experiencers seem to be one such type of being.”
Soon after the March ‘88 breathwork module, Mack was introduced to New York artist and famous alien experiencer and researcher, Budd Hopkins, who then introduced him to a whole network of abductees through a support group Hopkins was running. Unlike other mental health care professionals these folks may have seen, Mack had a much more empathetic approach. Instead of disbelieving what these people claimed to have experienced because he couldn’t prove it was true, Mack just held space for these folks to process their abductions, much like one would do for any other type of non-ordinary state of consciousness, like a near-death, psychedelic, or mystical experience.
“I think that was one of the big gifts he brought to this community of people he was working with. He never questioned whether their stories were true. He just accepted that people were having these experiences and tried to support them and give them a safe place where they could express what they were going through without fear of being judged. And that was huge for people,” says Gibson.
Mack helped abductees tremendously through this approach to their trauma by helping them “integrate” this reality-shattering experience, and at the same time, he started to find some undeniable common threads among their stories, which he writes about extensively in his two books on the subject, Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens (1994) and Passport to the Cosmos(1999). For example, the alien beings typically communicate with people telepathically and transmit profound messages through their big, dark eyes. Aliens also seem to alter people’s consciousness during their abduction experiences and even their “vibrations,” which then permits the aliens to move humans through the air and even through solid objects like the walls of their homes. What was also reliably consistent from experiencer to experiencer was a traumatizing loss of control of their bodies, incredibly invasive medical procedures, and even forced sexual contact and impregnation, which was often communicated to experiencers as an essential part of an alien-human hybrid program, and the future of both of their species.
Now, I know this all sounds a little X-Files-y (and according to Blumenthal in The Believer, Chris Carter (the TV show’s creator) even called Mack to pick his brain when he was developing the iconic series), but for the actual experiencers, this was deeply traumatizing. Budd Hopkins, for example, found the abductions to be incredibly demoralizing and felt it was a deep violation of trust and power by the alien beings, and that’s how he framed his support group for abductees—as one of victims processing trauma.
However, when Mack worked with experiencers, he used his recent training as a Holotropic breathwork facilitator to “hold space” for folks to integrate the non-ordinary state and to help it reach some kind of conclusion, which often lead to spiritual transformation. “As our work deepens, especially as the reality of the alien intelligence is acknowledged and the abductees come to accept their lack of control of the process, the frightening and adversarial quality of the relation seems to give way to a more reciprocal one in which useful human-alien communication can take place and mutual benefit is derived,” writes Mack in Abduction. “For example, the abductees [who] felt bitterly resentful about having their sperm and eggs used by the aliens in the hybridization project, may come to feel that they are participating in a process that has value for the creation and evolution of life.”
What Mack understood is that folks were processing experiences that completely shattered their worldview, similar to having one’s idea of reality flipped on its head after a strong psychedelic experience. How were folks supposed to get back to their regular lives after communicating with aliens telepathically and being shown we’re not the only intelligent life in the universe? “The terror is not just the terror of being paralyzed, having your body taken and having things done to you, the terror is the terror of the expansion of consciousness,” Mack said at a seminar on “Affect” in June 1992. He goes on to explain that is it a type of “ontological shock” that attacks people’s sense of their material reality—as it has attacked his own. And in his opinion, that’s what really needed to be integrated, not only by the abductees themselves, but by society, because that’s what really shocks people—that there’s more out there than we perceive on a daily basis.
In fact, his theories on the existence of aliens greatly differed from many of his UFO-hunting counterparts. Through his work with abductees and transpersonal realms of consciousness, he came to believe that aliens exist, but not in this physical dimension that we humans know as reality. He started to theorize about other realms of existence, or spiritual dimensions, where entities and intelligence like the alien “Grays” could exist, possibly less embodied but more conscious than us. And perhaps, the alien abduction phenomenon exemplified the most damning occurrence in the “Western dualistic worldview” as he often called it—that there are intelligent beings who are, at will, able to travel between dimensions and enter our material reality from their spirit realm.
“In
short, I was dealing with a phenomenon that I felt could not be explained
psychiatrically, yet was simply not possible within the framework of the
Western scientific worldview,” Mack writes in Abduction. “My choices then were either to stretch and twist
psychology beyond reasonable limits, overlooking aspects of the phenomenon that
could not be explained psychologically… Or, I might open to the possibility
that our consensus framework of reality is too limited and that a phenomenon
such as this cannot be explained within its ontological parameters. In other
words, a new scientific paradigm might be necessary in order to understand what
was going on.”
While deep in this research, my next question was: how significant were Mack’s psychedelic experiences to this openness to the possible existence of aliens, in this reality or another? Because for me, as a person who’s not particularly spiritual or religious and also grew up with a Western idea of what’s “real,” it wasn’t until my psychedelic experiences began lifting the veil that I started opening up to the possibility of spirit realms, plant intelligence, and now, the existence of aliens in some dimension. Mack admits in Passport to the Cosmos that his own experiences of “a transcendent reality” influenced his evolution of thought, in addition to his decade of working with experiencers and all the data they supplied him with.
In The Believer, Blumenthal also reports that Mack was experimenting with some psychedelics with his Grof group and other close friends. He talks of MDMA, LSD, ayahuasca, and ketamine trips, in addition to Holotropic breathwork. Mack also had correspondences with psychedelic philosophers and researchers doing adjacent work, like Terence McKenna and Rick Strassman. There’s a 1992 video of McKenna interviewing Mack at the International Transpersonal Conference in Prague and multiple references to McKenna’s work and the conversations the two of them had in transcripts and correspondences of Mack’s, which the John E. Mack Institute provided for me while I was researching this piece.
When Mack started theorizing about the purpose of the alien’s visits in his writing—that perhaps they were sent by some greater creative intelligence or “Anima Mundi” to expand human consciousness and help us not only evolve (or co-evolve), but also help us understand we are all intricately connected and need to take better care of our most precious gift, the planet earth—it sounds a lot like the insights from a strong psychedelic experience, or a talk from Terence McKenna at the time. At another Affect Seminar in July 1992, Mack referenced a McKenna quote, “that even God has limits”, in which Mack took to mean, “There is a point when one species seems to have carried the experiment too far in certain directions, then there is a cosmic correction occurring of a sort. And many of the abductees actually experience that powerfully, that this phenomenon involves some kind of balancing that is going on.”
Mack continues this line of thought in other talks and later writings—that perhaps the Anima mundi thinks we’re getting too destructive and it sent the aliens here to help us correct our ways. While I was in a deep reading of these ideas 20 years later, I couldn’t help but think that perhaps in 2020, that same intelligence thought psilocybin mushrooms may be a more successful plan to help evolve the human mind to realize its vital connection to all things. It’s a very common psychedelic insight (especially on mushrooms or ayahuasca) to feel a deep, spiritual connection to everything and to return with a great sense of urgency to help save our ailing planet. Could these messages all be coming from the same “source”?
Or, was Mack inserting his own spiritual and environmental bias onto his clients? “My own impression, gained from what abductees have told me, is that consciousness expansion and personal transformation is a basic aspect of the abduction phenomenon,” Mack wrote in Abduction. “I have come to this conclusion from noting in case after case the extent to which the information communicated by alien beings to experiencers is fundamentally about the need for a change in human consciousness and our relationship to the earth and one another. Even the helplessness and loss or surrender of control which are, at least initially, forced upon the abductees by the aliens—one of the most traumatic aspects of the experiences—seem to be in some way “designed” to bring about a kind of ego death from which spiritual growth and the expansion of consciousness may follow. But my focus upon growth and transformation might reflect a bias of mine.”
Are the aliens trying to expand human consciousness so we
can live more harmoniously with the rest of the galaxy, save our own home
planet, and become more in touch with a spiritual dimension? Or was Mack
letting his own consciousness expansion leak into his work and influence it too
strongly? “We would fight about it sometimes,” Callimanopulos recalls. She explains that Mack
was accused of leading people to believe their experiences were spiritual in
nature, and she also believed it had become his bias. Coming from an
anthropological background, she “felt he should hold back more and be more
neutral. Let people struggle to define their experience more.”
Yet, Callimanopulos also says that she often felt Mack was being very appropriate, and she describes how powerfully real people’s emotions were when they began to recall and process their abduction experiences. “He started this work because people were hurting,” Callimanopulos says. She also drives home that Mack possessed an incredible intellect and was always drawn to life’s mysteries. “John always tried to address the big questions in life, like what’s life about? How does it all work? What are we doing here? What’s our identity?”
After Abduction came out, Mack supported his theories—that aliens exist, but perhaps not in this physical dimension, and they’re here to expand and transform human consciousness for a higher intelligence’s purpose—on all the mainstream outlets of the time, including Oprah and Charlie Rose. But after a few damning articles in Time Magazine and the New York Times that questioned Mack’s practices, Harvard began a long and trying inquiry into the standards of his work. For instance, part of how Mack worked with abductees to help them remember and process their experiences was a relaxing form of hypnosis. But could that just be opening the door for false memories or confusing nocturnal dreams with reality? Mack defended his practice and truly felt that a non-ordinary state of consciousness like an alien abduction needed a similarly altered state to help the integration process, but to others, its necessity was less clear. There were other discrepancies that Harvard looked into as well, like how he billed insurance and charged abductees, and whether they were formally clients or research subjects.
Mack survived the Harvard inquiry tenure intact, but the emotional toll it must have taken on him is only for us to wonder. “He was very used to being well regarded and well-liked. It came as a big shock to him that people—his close colleagues, turned against him,” Callimanopulos says. “I think it was also harsh for John because he was a very collaborative, empathic person who enjoyed relationships more than anything else in life and sought out that harmony— that comfort and adulation from colleagues. So I think it was really tough.”
However, he continued the work with abductees, releasing his second and more openly spiritual book on the phenomena, Passport to the Cosmos, in 1999. Then, he also began a professional interest in the survival of consciousness after death, until his own tragic passing in 2004. When Mack was in England for a conference, he was hit by a car after looking the wrong way while trying to cross the road in London. It was a shock to the abductee community and all who knew him. He was 74 years old.
I can’t help but wonder if Mack’s ideas would be more easily accepted today in a world that’s decriminalizing magic mushrooms, pumping out psychedelic doses of ketamine to depressed patients, and scientifically quantifying the significance of mystical experiences in psychedelics’ usefulness for treating mental health conditions. During a time when more people are taking mushrooms and ayahuasca than ever before and coming to very similar insights as Mack’s abductees, would we be more receptive to his ideas of aliens expanding human consciousness in order to enlighten and transform our species, so that we can save ourselves from ourselves?
In 1999, he wrote in Passports to the Cosmos: “We seem to be experiencing now in the United States, and more or less throughout Western culture, a kind of spiritual renaissance. It reflects a deep hunger for something missing in the lives of many people, a sense, however vague, that there are other realms from which they feel cut off, and a growing realization that many of the catastrophic events of this century now ending have derived from radical secularism and spiritual emptiness.” Perhaps Mack himself was part of the cosmic correction, opening the mainstream’s mind to a whole world of transpersonal possibilities. “He was a big catalyst for the whole conversation being in the mainstream,” says Callimanopulos. “Maybe if he lived longer, he might have gone on to do a little more mapping of those different dimensions.”
About the Author
Michelle Janikian is a journalist focused on drug policy, trends, and education. She’s the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, and her work has also been featured in Playboy, DoubleBlind Mag, High Times, Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue. One of her core beliefs is that ending the prohibition of drugs can greatly benefit society, as long as we have harm reduction education to accompany it. Find out more on her website: www.michellejanikian.com or on Instagram @michelle.janikian.
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe have a discussion about spirituality and spiritual development.
Joe was rubbed the wrong way by a podcast he recently listened to where a previously very psychedelic-oriented Qabalist said that psychedelics didn’t really help with spiritual growth. This leads to a discussion built on many questions: what is spiritual development? What is enlightenment? Does drug-taking always need a set intention based on growth? Do “I need a break from bullshit” or “I want to have fun with my friends” count as intentions? And who are we worried will discredit or judge us for having those be our intentions or keys to spiritual development?
They also touch on religion and their embedded spiritual goals, the importance and power of the communal aspect of some of these experiences, the community that church brings to people and what’s changing as more people move away from religion, hypnosis and the dangers of inaccurate or entirely fabricated “memories,” the importance of diversifying your tools for growth, the trouble in trying to define shamanism, the problems with therapists and facilitators bringing their own frameworks into sessions rather than letting clients define their own experience, and the unfortunate passing of the Fungi Academy’s Oliver Merivee (fundraiser link below).
Lastly, they remind us that there are only a few spots left for the upcoming Navigating Psychedelics for Clinicians and Therapists class, which begins on January 7th. If you’ve been considering taking the class, what better time than the new year to take that step? Time to leave 2020 behind and step into 2021 with purpose! Happy New Year!
Notable Quotes
“The thing that had me keep coming back to breathwork is that sense of community. And I think a lot of people start to find their community in these medicine spaces and ayahuasca circles and whatnot, because you’re having an experience together and being able to explore and share that, and sometimes these are so vulnerable and so deep experiences- you’re together with a bunch of strangers and you feel like you just shared things or experienced things that you never really experienced with the closest people in your life. And somehow, that creates a sense of meaning or connection that is hard to find elsewhere. It’s interesting to really kind of view the community or community aspect as part of spirituality, in a sense.” -Kyle
“It’s interesting to hear people have these experiences and then have a facilitator say, ‘Yes, that’s what happened to you.’ How do you know? I don’t know. I’ve had plenty of these past life experiences and I have no idea if that was actually real.” -Kyle “Of course this is a complicated topic, and really messy. We wouldn’t have this many episodes of the podcast if it wasn’t.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, Kyle and Joe talk about what they’ve been up to in the last few weeks: doing drugs!
Kyle first tells us about his recent experiments with revisiting salvia (which is legal in his state) and how different the experiences were from his young-and-dumb experiments as a teenager- how smaller doses in more ceremonial settings with years of experience in breathwork-inspired non-ordinary states of consciousness helped him see salvia differently. He talks about feeling like he just met the spirit of salvia, and the first message was to “respect the plants.” He may be seeing her again.
And Joe talks in-depth about his experience last Friday with his first intramuscular ketamine injection- the setting, the music (Sigur Rós- good call, Joe), the dose and timing, and what he heard and felt (and didn’t) in his ultimately anxiety-relieving, body-dissolving time in an empty void. Like Kyle, he’s now even more open to and supportive of ketamine after the experience.
And they also talk about a new ibogaine analog that was recently created called tabernanthalog (or TBG), of which a single injection helped against heroin use relapse in mice for 14 days and doesn’t stimulate the brain’s reward centers. And they talk about the good that could come from the drug-designing technique used to create it, called function-oriented synthesis.
Notable Quotes
“Some people tell me they like 1.2 mg/kg. Some people even like to go as high as 2. I think 2 mg/kg is essentially like, they could harvest all your organs and you wouldn’t notice one bit. Based on how high and dissociated I was, they probably could have done it to me- if they made it quick, like 5 minutes. I probably would have been fine.” -Joe
“The way I always framed it before going in was: this is an experience of consciousness without identity, without ego, without anything, really. And I didn’t really feel like there was anything there that was me. The idea of ‘Joe’ felt like a weird thing, a weird silly thing. There was just, like, I and ego and one consciousness, so it wasn’t like a Hindu, bliss consciousness thing; it was like me, as an entity, experiencing… something. Like empty void.” -Joe
“This experience was really just fascinating, like how rapidly my consciousness changed. It wasn’t a hurried, frenetic thing like DMT. It was like, “Oh, nope. You’re just here. You’re chilling. You’re not going anywhere.” -Joe “The MAPs protocol is going to be very expensive. Psychedelic Therapy is already very expensive. So, if we could have a drug that would be safe for somebody to take at home, alone, I think of course we should do that. Not everything is cured through the psychedelic experience. Though a lot of things can be, it’s not the case that everything needs to be.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, after a short and much-needed break, Kyle and Joe return, but don’t really touch on any news. This time, they have a very open conversation largely focused on philosophy and capitalism.
They dive into a lot of philosophical questions: are we reducing the mystical to the medical? Do we understand enough about spirit and somatic energies to measure them? How much are therapists and sitters interpreting mystical experience and assigning meaning to it for others vs. teaching people how to interpret it themselves? What makes a God? Is commodifying the sacred bad? And what makes something sacred other than it being significant? And the classic: What is good?
They also touch on Harvard School of World Religions’ year-long series on psychedelics and the future of religion, the Divine Command Theory, James Kent’s DoseNation podcast series, Charles Eisenstein and the concept of deflationary money, the billionaire pledge, triple bottom line thinking and other ways to incentivize employees to make businesses closer to co-ops, and why not all capitalism is bad. Lastly, Joe highly recommends Tom O’Neill and Dan Piepenbring’s book, CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties, which touches on MKUltra, the Phoenix Program, how the government used Charles Manson, and how the drug war was a logical consequence of the paranoia of the U.S.S.R. and communism toppling the USA and capitalism.
Notable Quotes
“Coming from the somatic world, our bodies- I think, sometimes we dismiss that and maybe might call that a little ‘woo woo,’ but how is your body an actual instrument that can help you understand maybe what’s going on? It’s firing a bunch of signals all the time, right? Information is just coming in and we have to try to make sense of it. Is it an appropriate instrument to try to learn how to discern the information that’s coming in? Could we finely tune that?” -Kyle
“It’s helpful to have diagnostic categories, but I think we’re taking the diagnostic categories a little too seriously and making them a little too real. A diagnostic category is not as real as a glass of water in your hand. One’s real concrete, one’s real abstract. Both are helpful at times. Both could be harmful, depending on what you do with the glass.” -Joe “A lot of folks want to just use psychedelics and escape the world, like the ‘drop out’ thing. Like, ‘I’m just going to be with the spirit world.’ But it’s like, what good is you being with the spirit world if you’re not having any impact on the world world?” -Joe “Being hubristic enough to say that ‘I have an answer’- that’s where I see the problem. Being willing to engage in conversation with people with a lot more experience with this kind of thing is probably where it’s at. Like, ok, let’s talk to 4-5 economists and see what their opinion is. Maybe talk to some professional ethicists to see what their opinion is. I don’t think anybody is going to have the answer, but by hearing all of those perspectives, we can learn more.” -Joe
In today’s Solidarity Fridays episode, the typical Solidarity Fridays format is switched up yet again, this time with Joe interviewing author of best-selling book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,and recent Joe Rogan Experience guest, Brian Muraresku. Because where do you go after Joe Rogan? Psychedelics Today, of course.
Muraresku discusses how his fascination with Latin and Greek and the 1978 book, The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries (by R. Gordon Wasson, Albert Hofmann, and Carl A. P. Ruck) and its proposal of a psychedelic sacrament of sorts being imbibed at the Rites of Eleusis led him to spend about 12 years searching for evidence to prove it. From the idea of “graveyard beer,” to Alcibiades and the profanation of mysteries, to wine parties to interact with the dead called refrigeriums, Muraresku dives deep into his findings: that the wine they drank was, at the least, spiked with herbs and spices to create something very different and likely hallucinogenic, that participants were seeking immortality, a euphoric ecstasy, and communion with both God and the dead, that both the Dionysian Gospel and Christianity are heavily related to the Rites of Eleusis, and that these ceremonies don’t appear to have been isolated to Eleusis- that people took what they learned and practiced elsewhere, in what Denise Demetriou refers to as “open-access sanctuaries.”
Notable Quotes
“Some of the legacies of this civilization, from democracy and the arts and sciences to literature and philosophy and the very concept of a university- all these inheritances are the things that we associate with the very literate Greeks. And there stands Euelisis at the center of it all. …And they [the Rites] were seen as so important, so central, so integral to life at the time, that even Cicero, a Roman in the first century B.C.- he referred to Euelisis as ‘the most exceptional and divine thing that Athens ever produced.’ So it wasn’t democracy, the arts, sciences, etc. It was Eleusis.”
“They saw something. The thinking for a long time was that maybe it was a theatrical performance- maybe there was something happening in this temple that has been lost to time. And then that book I mentioned in 1978, The Road to Eleusis, was saying as long as we’re talking about a vision, why can’t it be something that was produced internally? Why couldn’t it be one of these great epiphanic psychedelic visions? And so, as a hypothesis, it makes sense just based on the way people talked about this experience. It was a once in a lifetime experience that essentially erased the fear of death and made these initiates immortals. And weirdly, which is why I picked this up in the first place, it’s very, very similar to the testimony that comes from the volunteers in the Johns Hopkins experiments with psilocybin. It’s again, a once in a lifetime single dose of psilocybin [that] seems to result in these profound, mystical transformations in people; including atheists, who will describe it as among the most meaningful experiences of their lives.”
“I think that there was a historical Jesus, and I think that we have these relatively conflicting accounts of what he was and what the message was in the canonical gospels that have come down to us. But we have these other gospels and this Gnostic literature that didn’t make it in The Bible, and the gospel of Mary Magdalene. And what comes across to me, time and again, are people trying to find ecstasy, people looking for communion with Jesus. And again, you don’t have to look off into all this esoteric stuff just to focus on the very simple proposition that the Eucharist is an immortality potion, plain and simple.”
Brian Muraresku graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Brown University with a degree in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit. As an alumnus of Georgetown Law and a member of the New York Bar, he has been practicing law internationally for fifteen years. He lives outside Washington D.C. with his wife and two daughters.
Working in psychotherapy with substances such as LSD, MDMA, and psilocybin in order to help heal depression, post-traumatic stress, or to overcome death anxiety has been the subject of many publications. Some authors, such as Stanislav Grof, have even gone so far as to establish new stages in human development. Just as Freud in his time conceived of psychopathology on the basis of trauma in the oral, anal, or genital stages, Grof postulates that certain behavioral disorders stem from suffering encountered in one of the four perinatal stages. In conjunction, both older (James Fadiman, Michael Mithoefer) and more recent authors (Benny Shannon, Eric Vermetten) have modeled psychotherapy settings that use work under psychedelic substance.
Our aim today is not to question these different approaches and their possible transferability to countries where the law prohibits such practices. Indeed, what are the implications regarding the relationship with therapists when working in a framework outside the law, which imposes secrecy towards the environment? What does this induce in therapy?
In France, the law prohibits the use of substances in psychotherapy. However, in our therapists’ offices, we receive people who have gone abroad to other continents to have psychedelic experiences (whether conducted according to traditional practices or not) or even to nearby countries where foreign shamans come to perform ceremonies. The people who come to consult in this context have either had a “bad trip” that still disturbs them, or are no longer able to reintegrate socially after a strong mystical experience, or, still further, want to understand and integrate what they have lived through.
This is “afterthought” process work that differs from what a therapeutic framework would have involved, with preparation prior to the experience, specific therapeutic support during the experience, and an integration (the phase where meaning is given, where the experience is symbolized) and assimilation (the phase when we are able to link this experience to all our past experiences and our history, enabling us to visit prior beliefs) of the elements that emerged during the experience. Indeed, the psychedelic experience induces a shock by opening up hitherto unknown spaces which the psyche does not know what to do with, or, if it does, it will literally cling to the visions that have arisen during the experience, even if this means being out of step with daily reality.
These people come knocking at our door because they know that in addition to our training as a psychologist and psychotherapist, we have been initiated into shamanic practices. As such, we are supposed to know all about this, or, at least, are willing to hear non-ordinary stories without limiting our diagnosis to psychopathology. Through this approach, we are asked to hear these accounts not as pure madness, but to take care of their experience as a salient moment in their lives, even if a painful one.
In doing so, the experiencers come to challenge our own reference grids and our anthropology. Applying a single theoretical reference frame as we usually do in therapy has the risk of greatly reducing our understanding of the experience, even if this frame of reference was based on the transpersonal current. From our point of view, Grof’s perinatal stages or the archetypes of Carl Jung or Gilbert Durand cannot, by themselves, sufficiently support the elaboration work required by our patients. We believe that elements emerging during a psychedelic experiment are polysemic. They must be looked at on several levels: symbolic, metaphorical, transcendental, processual, as well as on the ego and somatic levels. Each level can, in itself, feature several interpretations.
For example, if I see myself as a warrior killing the dragon to free the princess:
-This may symbolize a problem in my married life which is very difficult to solve (we talk about symbolism at this point, because in our culture, references to the warrior and the princess speak of couples, as seen in children’s tales).
-At the level of the ego, it may question my desire to be recognized by my wife, or manifest my need to be seen as a powerful man.
-At the transcendental level, I may be envisaging the influence of superior, and even very ancient archetypal forces impacting my life as a couple.
-On a metaphorical level, it could be interpreted as the work I have to do to channel masculine strength and liberate the feminine dimension of my being.
-On the somatic level, during this experience, I may have felt a lot of energy inside, which could point towards the fact that I have a lot of inner energy at my disposal to obtain what I desire.
-On a process level, if I follow through with my vision, it has me view my wife as a weak person in need of rescue. Maybe this reveals my thoughts on male/female relationships.
-And at the transgenerational level, it may evoke how one of my ancestors forced a marriage upon his family against their advice.
The symbolic and metaphorical levels can overlap, and it’s often a very fine line to distinguish between them, and not necessarily always useful to do so. However, it is essential for therapists to keep these different levels in mind so that interpretations can be broken down and not rushed through too quickly, for the sake of an immediate ‘aha’ moment that would obscure and eliminate all other possibilities.
At the same time, a single level of interpretation may contain several meanings. For example, at the symbolic level, seeing oneself locked in a dark cave from which no escape is possible can represent how my current life is functioning now, just as it can symbolize the overwhelming constraints which I am confronted with in my environment, or my inability to see my situation clearly, etc.
To shed light on our way of working, we offer below three very different clinical cases.
Marc is a 38-year-old man. He lives alone without any children. His mother died when he was 20, and he sees his father quite regularly. He has little contact with his brother, who lives far away. Marc has been to South America, where he tried mushrooms, peyote, and ayahuasca. During his experiences, he was given a highly spiritual task: to attain spiritual enlightenment and guide his fellow citizens on this path. He saw himself as having high spiritual potential and became convinced that this was his destiny. Unfortunately, his return home to France was not as smooth as expected. There were no followers to be found. His speeches were met with irony. He didn’t make a good Messiah. Disheartened and still convinced by the visions he experienced deep inside, he isolated himself and drifted into a state of depression.
When we meet him for the first time and ask him about the faith he has in his own visions, he answers that his mother had the gift of clairvoyance and that she spoke “The language,” implying the language used by Christ. So there was no doubt that he had to continue the work of his lineage, being himself, like his mother, a person different from others.
From a psychological viewpoint, we could make the hypothesis of narcissistic disorder, eased by an extraordinary ideal. This defense mechanism against narcissistic collapse, however, is undermined by the lack of disciples. The depressive movement is the reason for his consulting us, and not his psychedelic experiences, which he believes to have understood sufficiently well.
Initially, no attempt was made to deconstruct his defense mechanism. We looked at his mission and more precisely how he had come to this conclusion. Based on his visions where he had sensed divine power within and where he had seen himself conveying it to others, we came up with several other interpretations for each of the levels previously evoked.
For example, divine power was seen as a spark of life shared by every human being (transcendental level). It was no longer a superpower that he possessed and that made him into an exceptional being. Together, we worked on his representation of the visible and invisible worlds, and the beliefs attached to these representations; namely, whether every human being had a mission, who assigned it, and whether we all had some degree of freedom with regard to this mission.
We also looked to see if this mission could stand as a metaphor for the way his family functioned, in which one person was the leader of all. We explored his family lineages. Was this “gift” already present over several generations? He thought his maternal grandmother had it, but wasn’t sure. He could only confirm that this particular trait was not recognized by those around him. Rather, it caused exclusion. This was a form of transgenerational recurrence. He thus was able to see exclusion as something to be avoided and discontinued. We did not go any further on that level.
Next, we addressed the level of ego, in this case, the desire to be recognized, admired, loved, and to be able to guide others. Through this inquiry, he was able to let go of his feeling of being all-powerful. It reintroduced a notion of intersubjectivity that he was overriding. It was also a way of looking at his limits and of accepting his shortcomings, thus allowing acceptance of a sufficient level of frustration (in the psychoanalytical sense) to live in society.
We suggested to him to let his vision unfold to the maximum (on the imaginary level), push it to the limit, and see how that would be for him, and what he would learn from it. This is the process level. When we go to the very end of the rationale of “I have something divine that I must share with others,” it most often leads to a crazy, untenable position. In this situation, it could well lead to becoming a new Christ. Pushed to this extreme, he felt that it was not right.
During these experiences, he had felt full of energy. He told himself that it would be forever present in him and that he could rely on it for his new life projects. Working on the different interpretation levels allowed him to let go of the initial conclusion that had stuck him in an unbearable pattern. Working on his ego, he resumed humility, which, in turn, helped him find a job in nature that he easily adapted to.
Exploring the transcendental level through how he viewed the visible and invisible worlds set him back on a spiritual path that did not split him off from the people he knew. In this case, we can speak of a shock or intrusion that caused spiritual trauma. If psychedelics have been shown to open up a spiritual space that is helpful for the person, they can just as easily cause a form of trauma, because the experience cannot be integrated, thus locking the individual into an alienating dynamic.
This example shows us once again the regrettable absence of a containing setting when using psychedelics. Such experiments proposed in a different cultural context, with codes often unknown to us Westerners, do not allow the experimenters to integrate the contents of their experience.
The second situation refers to a person who underwent a bad experience using psychedelics with a sitter in a supposedly therapeutic context.
Simon had taken LSD. After marveling at the fantastic images and colorful music, he had found himself locked in a kind of hell with viscous, crooked, suffering beings. Some of them were obsessed with sex. Disgusted, Simon could see in these beings all the darkness of their souls. A voice sounded in his ears: “You’re just like them, just as bad… You’ll never get away with it… You’re doomed to stay here…”
In fact, until the end of his psychedelic experience, Simon would not leave this space. Very affected and upset by his experience, he shared it with his sitter, whose answer was: “The medicine knows what is good for you… Let this experience take you through.”
A state of depression ensued. Simon couldn’t bear to see this hideous evil forever lodged in the depths of his soul. He saw no way out of this condemnation. The darkness of the images he had seen on that trip had left a deep impression on him. He imagined he’d be stuck there even after his death. This state lasted more than three months without his sitter being able to help him any further. She was always evasive during their phone calls, probably overwhelmed by the situation herself.
It was at this point that Simon began work to heal his depression. We invited him to delve into the darkness he evoked and see how it was inscribed within. Through our elaborations, differentiation was made between his cowardice in everyday life, the fears that triggered aggression, the frustrations generating anger, and the possessive, predatory nature of his sex drive.
The darkness he witnessed during the journey was no longer a shapeless, slimy magma. In fact, each element of this hell could metaphorically represent an aspect of Simon’s personality. Viewed in this way, it provided a perspective to work with. By unfolding each element, we were able to extract him from the suffocating magma he couldn’t shake free from before.
This “bad trip” can be construed as an attack on the ego. The ego seeing itself in its darkest aspects with no hope of breaking out triggered the depressive episode. The attack on the ego also contributed to taking a good look at the reverse polarity: “Who do you think you are, to imagine you’d be free from negativity?” The process allowed Simon to identify his quest for an idealized self (being a good person in all respects), which cut him off from a whole part of his being.
His spiritual quest, as he practiced it, let him off from confronting his shadow areas. In fact, it really supported a cheap narcissism. However, it was actually through this soul-searching initiative that he finally was able to take into account the shadows perceived during his journey. He saw them as constitutive of all human beings, i.e. elements that everyone had to work on.
This transcendental perspective made him accept his shadow areas and brought him out of his self-condemnation that had frozen his being. Having to improve on these negative areas, as with any human being, brought movement back into his life. It also gave him more compassion for others and for their shortcomings.
At the process level, this experience was analyzed on two levels:
-The form of idealization that he held for his sitter was shattered. Through this idealization, Simon was looking for a knowledgeable figure who would pass on their knowledge to him. From the pupil being taught special knowledge, he became the grown man making the effort to search for himself. The fact that the sitter had failed to be of help forced him to give up his search for a master and to discover himself.
-The second level of the process consisted of pursuing his vision to the end, i.e. remaining locked up in this hell. Simon then asked himself who held such a power to condemn? Could God condemn a human being to such a degree?
Several hypotheses were offered to Simon on the basis of his spiritual beliefs:
-Christ (Simon had been raised as a Catholic) is a God of love and forgiveness. This is what He preaches. Simon could not see Him condemn in this way.
-Reincarnation makes us consider death a passage and not a prison.
-Returning to the original source is not what he had seen either.
Simon concluded that the only one who could condemn him to this hell was himself. He had to learn to forgive and have compassion for himself, which was quite different from a narcissistic drive.
At the same time, he had also associated the image of hell with what his father had endured during the war. This episode was never talked about in the family, and, as Simon saw it, everything about that war was censored in his family. Through his vision, it was as if that hushed-up part of family history was finally revealed. That’s how Simon interpreted it. Without talking about closer ties between father and son, Simon understood and accepted more of his father’s silence. It also opened up a whole new set of questions about his transgenerational legacies.
Working this way on the different levels enabled Simon to move out of his depressive state. This example shows that the medicine does not do the work on its own, contrary to what is sometimes claimed by some counselors. The qualification of the counselor/sitter is fundamental.
The third example tells us about a defaulting set and setting.
Elizabeth had been experimenting with a friend, Birgit. One day, Birgit suggested she should work with an LSD specialist she knew and admired highly. Elizabeth agreed, but some time before the experience, she got into an argument with Birgit.
On the day of her experience, Elizabeth was greeted very coldly by her friend, who quickly introduced her to the specialist before she left. After taking LSD, Elizabeth was shown into a small room, with a stained bed and deafening music. She remarked on the lack of cleanliness of the sheets, but at the insistence of the sitter, she moved in with resignation and disgust. After some time, Elizabeth got up and asked to move to a chair in another room. A power struggle immediately ensued. The sitter refused and, in a rage, Elizabeth physically grabbed her. Frightened, the sitter gave in. Shortly thereafter, Birgit reappeared. Elizabeth was beginning to come to her senses. Confused by the tense atmosphere, she decided to go home against Birgit’s advice.
This experience left Elizabeth in a deep state of unease and she severed contact with both her friend and the sitter. She thought things over without really understanding what had happened. Guilt took over.
A few months later, she signed up for a trip to swim with dolphins. Two striking events followed: a mother dolphin and her baby dolphin came to swim with her. Then, a hummingbird landed on her while she was lying on the sailboat in the open sea. These two events caused a shockwave. The discomfort disappeared and gave way to an old childhood memory of being in communion with animals. She had rediscovered the simple joy and wonder of her childhood nature.
Looking back with Elizabeth on what had happened, she saw these moments as signs of healing that her soul had granted her- an interpretation based on her spiritual approach strongly anchored in shamanism. This interpretation, based on a transcendental perspective, but also on a childhood experience, had reconciled her with life through connection to the animal world.
Yet there were further developments to the session. Her relationship with her friend Birgit changed. From a relationship of dependence, she went through a period of anger, sadness, and then detachment. She came to see how the emotional bond was tied in with a form of submission. This issue, playing out on the level of the ego, concerned all three persons involved. Each one was playing their part in the game (loyalty, displacement of the bond, and roles).
How the framework is set and how the setting (physical conditions) is organized will have a strong impact on the experience, since it conditions mindset and the inner security with which the experience is met: many psychic contents will be colored by those factors. It also underlines the importance of the sitters/caretakers overcoming personal issues in order to avoid feeding them back unconsciously into their work environment.
Thus the framework, which had become violent due to the climate of disagreement (above and beyond the mere dirtiness of the sheets and the intensity of the music), had, in turn, summoned Elizabeth’s physical violence. Realizing how everyone had participated in the unfolding of this session, Elizabeth was able to refrain from taking on all the guilt and to see what recurring patterns were at play in her relationships.
Curiously, Elizabeth had few memories of what she saw during her trip, other than her strong desire to admire the beauty of spring outside, from the vantage of a clean and quiet environment. It was as if the most important part of the experience revolved around what happened between these three people. In this situation, the process level stood out clearly. This episode also echoed on the metaphorical level for Elizabeth. It highlighted how the people who needed to take care of her had failed to do so, and how nature had made up for it.
The multiple levels summoned in the integration work (and their scope) require of the therapist a real freedom and skill in wielding the whole keyboard of interpretive planes, i.e. a vast opening to numerous therapeutic, symbolic, emotional, processual, transgenerational, and spiritual meanings, in the face of the infinite psychic contents unveiled in these experiences.
Through these three clinical vignettes, we propose a structured intervention framework quite different from what is applied in traditional therapies, and that we use when assisting clients with such painful experiences or “bad trips.” We insist on the polysemic nature of each vision and on the different levels to be explored:
-The symbolic level -The level of ego -The transcendental level -The somatic level -The process level -The transgenerational level
Of course, when exploring all these levels, some may not be relevant to the person’s experience. Yet we ought not be satisfied with the first insight singled out, which would lead to an overlooking of the other equally relevant possibilities. We have often noticed that by focusing on a first interpretation, one failed to question the ego level, thus avoiding an awkward challenge.
In fact, this type of work unfolds in time. Integration and assimilation cannot happen in the span of a few rare sessions following the stressful experience. Indeed, these bad experiences often confront our clients with hidden elements of their functioning, beliefs, or history, i.e. elements which they were not ready to face, hence the importance of in-depth support.
About the Authors
Denis Dubouchet: A clinical psychologist for 35 years, psychotherapist, and Gestalt therapist, he trained at Michael Harner’s Foundation for Shamanic Studies, and he has worked with shamans and participated in ceremonies in their countries. He is the author of Etats de Conscience Elargie, Psychothérapie et Chamanisme (Ed. Dervy, 2017). You can reach him at denis.dubouchet@gmail.com.
Rosine Fiévet: A Gestalt therapist and coach for over 20 years, Rosine first discovered shamanism in 1981 with the women of Okinawa. She now regularly travels to North and Latin America to explore the traditions of the First Nations people to support her practice in ancestral healing. She has completed a full course in shamanism with the Sacred Trust in England. You can reach her at rosine.fievet@orange.fr.
In this episode, Kyle interviews Doctor of Psychology, faculty member at Esalen Institute, Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, Dharma teacher, and former Buddhist monk, Dr. Michael Sapiro.
Sapiro talks about his recent travel pilgrimage to the northeast US, living in a camper with his dog and spending a lot of time in the woods working on himself and his connection with others. He talks about the “ways of knowing” that is taught at Esalen Institute, where people ask their cognitive brain about an important decision, then ask their body, their intuition, and even their ancestors and/or spirit guides, paying attention to their reaction to each interaction. He talks about methods to deal with body reactions, breathwork, the importance of self-talk, metaphors, cutting karma so you aren’t perpetuating old ancestral wounds, the concept of post-traumatic growth, the difference between selfishness and self-focus, and knowing when to be passively working on yourself or actively engaging with and helping others.
They discuss how to fuse your normal self with your mystical self and make the mystical ordinary- through action, being self-aware, staying calm, staying open-hearted, and always thinking of what can be done next to improve yourself and the health of others. This is a bit of a feel-good episode: in a hectic, stressful time, it’s a reminder of the importance of checking in with yourself, taking care of yourself, and allowing yourself to just be.
Notable Quotes
“One of the things nature and the mystery taught me in my retreat, was to slow down and feel the presence of the mystery in a strand of a spider web. And I’m not being hyperbolic- I would slow down on a walk and see this spider web and just be with it for a while. What can I learn? What can I soak in? How can I be with it? And then I would take that into conversations when I met people. So that’s one practical way of bringing the wisdom of the forest into our daily lives.”
“How beautiful that we have this access to deep knowledge of the universe through us, but we have to be quiet. We have to be quiet to hear the whispers of the heart. And when you become quiet, the whispers of the heart become louder and they start filling you in. Then you have to start believing it.”
“What I learned in the forest and when I was doing my own healing work, is that the mystical states are actually ordinary- profoundly ordinary states of greeting the world [presently]- through my eyes, through my being, through being quiet when I’m agitated. …Making the mystical states ordinary is a verb. It’s turning mysticism into an action, and that comes out through our speech, eye-gazing, through the way we listen, [and] the way we show up for ourselves and other people.”
“Selfishness is doing a behavior that negatively impacts other people on purpose. …Being self-focused is different. It’s ok that we have time being self-focused. …You have to discern the difference. Because it’s not selfish to take care of the vessel that your consciousness is housed in. It’s important so you have good health to contribute to others’ health. It’s important because you’re precious and you matter. You don’t have to be selfish to take care of yourself, so let yourself off a little bit. Because a lot of people say ‘I feel selfish when I take care of myself.’ That’s not fair actually. That’s not fair. If you’re being selfish, call yourself out on it and change your behavior. If you’re just taking care of yourself out of self-love, because you know your health will positively impact other people’s (because we’re interdependent), then it’s really important you do take time to be self-focused.”
Michael Sapiro, PsyD is a clinical psychologist, Dharma teacher, meditation researcher, writer, workshop and retreat leader, and former Buddhist monk. He is on faculty at Esalen Institute and is a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences where he engages in research on meditation, transformation, and consciousness. He completed his postdoctoral fellowship in advanced psychology at the Boise VA Medical Center where he specialized in rural health, PTSD, and combat trauma. Dr. Sapiro teaches nationally on the art and science of transformation, expanded human capabilities, self-care, and meditation for personal and community growth. He is the founding teacher of Maitri Sangha Boise, an integrated Buddhist community, and director of Maitri House Yoga, LLC, serving the community through integrating meditation practices, psychology, noetic sciences, and social justice. He can be found at michaelsapiro.com.
Claudio Naranjo was a Chilean-born shaman of Moorish, Spanish, and Jewish descent. He was also a psychotherapist, medical doctor, author, educator, serious Buddhist practitioner, and pioneer in the areas of psychology, psychedelic therapies, and human development. His integrative approaches to a variety of fields elevated his work and created global reach and influence. He was always keen to point out that “spirituality should not be confused with religious beliefs or moral codes.” Towards the end of his life, he stressed the importance of emotional education, and the forgotten goal of educating for wisdom– and not just for knowledge to be harnessed for financial gain.
An early practitioner of Enneagram, he enriched it by integrating Gestalt therapy via Gurdjeff, meditation, music and art therapy, and other practices designed to provide deep, personal insights. But he admitted a vulgar commercialization of the Enneagram took place in North America. He explored the power of education to counter the patriarchal beliefs contributing to our deepening global crisis. “To change the world,” Claudio would say, “change education.” Naranjo’s approach to Buddhism was the same as the Buddha’s; he taught meditation with the offer to “ just try it,” and “see what it offers.”
His many years of teaching at Esalen Institute in the 1960s were both a pinnacle as well as a painful period in his life. One of his closest friends was Carlos Castaneda, who agreed with his concern that the “powerful gentleman Mr. Money” had increasingly taken control of the world, and belittled human beings to the point of dehumanization. Claudio soon became one of Fritz Perls’ three successors at Esalen, along with Jack Downing and Robert Hall. Claudio attended sensory awareness workshops with the legendary Charlotte Selver. Richard Evans Schultes arranged for Naranjo to make a special journey by canoe up the Amazon River to study ayahuasca with the South American Indians. He brought back samples of this drug and published the first scientific description of the effects of its active alkaloids.
Claudio also took part in the meetings of Leo Zeff’s pioneering psychedelic therapy group. He was an early enthusiast of using psychedelics (primarily ayahuasca, MDMA, and ibogaine) as medicines for a panoply of social and psychiatric conditions. Married four times, his last partner was Carolyn Merchant, a marriage and family therapist and a co-worker with Claudio on his book and teachings. In 1970, Claudio lost his only son in a terrible car accident on Big Sur’s Highway 1. He stated that the most significant realization of his life was that “nothing is more important in our time than our learning to be a little kinder.”
The Naranjo Institute presented the Seekers After Truth (SAT) program in 2012, with a new cohort opening annually. The program consists of four residential workshops, each lasting between six to nine days. The retreats represented a comprehensive exploration of psychological, spiritual, and expressive practices for understanding the human trajectory toward growth and fulfillment. From exploring who we have become and the precise ways we have each become stuck and continue to get stuck, the program went on to encourage processes of active healing and the expansion of one’s sense of possibilities. It was a “supplementary curriculum” of self-knowledge, relationship-repair, and spiritual culture.
In the course of its evolution as a program for personal and professional development of therapists and teachers since its rebirth in the late eighties, Naranjo called SAT a “psychotherapy laboratory,” in which people learned to help each other through the development of psychotherapeutic skills that do not require a background in the customary academic theoretical literature. He called this the “democratization of psychotherapy,” and education of future teachers, who may be able to assist their students in their personal growth.
Claudio’s recent and last talk was the highlight of the 2019 World Ayahuasca Conference in Girona, Spain. I will never forget his courage as one of his arms was violently swinging in the air due to his Parkinson’s. For all of his powerful influence on the development of human consciousness, in the bigger picture, Naranjo felt unsatisfied with his work, and disillusioned: “The economy has dominated politics, and practically everything else, asphyxiating life and its intrinsic values, the social order, and all our institutions.” A harbinger of things to come (such as defunding police) was his hope that the community take charge of many things (or perhaps of everything) that it once delegated to its governments, including communications, finance, and maintaining peace.
Claudio also found time to write or edit numerous books. He revised an early book on Gestalt therapy and published two new ones. He published three books on the Enneagram of Personality, as well as The End of Patriarchy. He also published a book on meditation, The Way of Silence and the Talking Cure, and Songs of Enlightenment.
Published in 2010 with a foreword by Jean Houston, was Healing Civilization: Bringing Personal Transformation into the Societal Realm through Education and the Integration of the Intra-Psychic Family. Naranjo explored what he saw as the root causes of the destruction of humanity: war, violence, oppression of women, child abuse, environmental endangerment, and patriarchy, which has taken root over millennia in our own conditioned minds. He touted the work of Tótila Albert, who asks us to see ourselves as three-brained with the “Inner Father” (corresponding to the head), the “Inner Mother” (corresponding to the heart), and the “Inner Child” (corresponding to the instincts). As people learn to integrate these three “brains,” Naranjo believed, they (the instincts) may bring about a functional- even divine, family within. For Naranjo, transforming education to be oriented toward personal and collective evolution could help heal civilization.
In his last book, The Revolution We Expected: Cultivating a New Politics of Consciousness (2020), Dr. Naranjo presents a call for individual and societal transformation in order to rebuild and humanize our institutions and realize a post-patriarchal global ecological community. “Even if the catastrophe of the sinking of the patriarchal vessel in which we have been sailing continues,” Naranjo writes, ”it is better for us to understand, by going through our crisis with faith, that the agonizing death rattles of our civilization are our greatest hope for regeneration.” He speaks of “apprentice shamans, who, without knowing it, are searching for their own development, and will sooner or later have the possibility of being of help in a world needing precisely those qualities they are developing.”
Dr. Naranjo observes that ‘realizing’ is the bravest thing of all- “to see that one was wrong and to change direction.” As Canadian psychologist Steven Pinker reminds us, “We humans have a very good eye for intellect but we do not yet have the right organ to understand consciousness.”
Claudio Naranjo passed away in July of 2019 at 86 years old.
In this episode, Joe interviews shaman, motivational speaker, author, minister, and healer, Vanessa LeMaistre.
LeMaistre talks about her path towards shamanism: from being told she was different as a child, to traveling to India at 25 and falling in love with yoga and meditating on the Ganges river, to a tarot card reading inspiring her to earn her Master’s degree at Naropa University, to trying coca for the first time (without realizing ahead of time that that’s what she’d be doing), to training with Michael Harner. Ultimately, what led her towards accepting her fate as a shaman was both healing from the devastating death of her infant son, Kamden, due to a very rare disease, and numerous ayahuasca ceremonies in Peru, where shamans told her that her ancestors were calling to her.
She talks about living with the odd uncertainty of feeling like she should become a shaman, tarot card readers, a neighbor at an ayahuasca ceremony’s entity attachment and her interest in getting into entity extraction, her connection to Voodoo and interest in Haitian zombies, microdosing, homelessness and how some countries help each other compared to the U.S., the complications of being a shaman and trying to avoid narcissism, and what her travels have been like for her as a multi-raced woman in a world that is predominately full of white men.
LeMaistre offers spiritual coaching sessions, divination readings, sound bowl healing, motivational talks and spiritual coaching, facilitates healing talking circles (with a focus on diversity and inclusivity), and has started selling “Self-Love candles,” which she prays over and sets with intentions. She also donates books and teaches children how to meditate through her non-profit, Kamden’s Room, and has started a virtual “Soul Church,” which people can attend through her website every Sunday at 1pm PST.
Notable Quotes
“I’m finally coming to terms with accepting that, ‘You know what? Maybe there is no elder.’ I have been burned by so many people that are ‘spiritual leaders’ who are charlatans or frauds, and they’re posing as something and then they may get threatened by the power I bring, or they’re afraid that I’m going to catch them. I’ve just kind of taken it as: ‘let me learn as much as I can from what I don’t want to be, and accept that maybe there are no elders, and I’m on the verge of becoming an elder myself.’”
“It was the most spiritual experience of my entire life. I have never seen the veil so thin to where I was getting premonitions, prophecies… It was very enlightening in the sense that I had a big impairment- and I’ll just be transparent here- I had a big impairment on a personal level with accepting my physical experience, and I had a lot of complexities around understanding that I was beautiful. And this night- it showed me who I was, what I need to do, and really started this process of coming into accepting myself as I am.”
“In plant medicine circles too- most of them that I’ve sat in, I’ve always been the only black person, which has been interesting. And even being in the jungle, and having that experience with that person, I was the only female as well, so that was uncomfortable. …I’ll see ads for “Shamanic drumming- Michael Harner,” but it’s always a person who looks a certain way, and I’ve never seen anyone that looks like me. Well, why not get someone like me? …I think it’s important for people to see someone who’s multi-raced, who’s diverse, and who’s passionate and an advocate for psychedelics, especially considering, within our community, how many people don’t know what it is.”
After going through childhood experiencing a plethora of sexual abuse and dealing with the absence of her father to protect her, she has overcome a tremendous amount of trauma. When she was 25 she was a lost soul who found her way through yoga and traveling to India for spiritual trainings. Later down her journey, she gave birth to a beautiful baby boy who passed away 9-months later. Since then, Vanessa has stepped into her path as a shaman and a holistic healer. She has created a virtual church called Soul Church where people can congregate in community through ritual and conversation.
Peyote (Lophophora williamsii) is a small, spineless cactus endemic to North America, growing in the vast desert thorn scrub that runs from the southwestern United States into north-central Mexico. For centuries, the mescaline-containing cactus has been used by Indigenous groups in Northern America as a ceremonial medicine and a religious sacrament considered integral to their way of life. The rapidly growing psychedelic movement has generated a new wave of interest in plant medicines, including peyote, requiring us to tread with awareness for the impact this has on the Indigenous cultures and communities who have long stewarded these medicines.
At present, the peyote cactus is in the midst of a deep conservation crisis. Over the past few decades, wild peyote populations have been rapidly declining due to a convergence of factors including oil and gas development, illegal poaching, agricultural development, and unsustainable harvesting practices. Amongst Indigenous communities, there is a growing need to conserve this quickly disappearing natural resource that is a core element of the Native American Church (NAC), the largest pan-Indigenous religion in the United States.
Due to growing evidence of the decline of peyote and mounting concern about obtaining their sacred medicine, the NAC commissioned the Peyote Research Project (PRP) in 2013. The first phase of the project (PRP 1) concerned itself with documenting the decline of peyote as well as assessing threats to its natural habitat, while the second phase (PRP 2) focused on identifying conservation strategies, including “securing sovereign land” to protect the Peyote Gardens and building relationships with landowners to lease space for replanting and harvesting.
Sandor Iron Rope, former President of the Native American Church of North America, current president of the Native American Church of South Dakota, member of the Oglala Lakota Oyate (Oglala Sioux Tribe), and Indigenous Peyote Conservation Initiative (IPCI) board member, reflects that “supply and demand have always been an issue, and when we started looking at it through the lens of the PRP, we found out many issues were in the forefront of the longevity of supply.”
The research activities of the PRP showed that peyote was under threat, both in regards to its populations and quality of the plant. As the need to conserve peyote became more pressing, the National Council of Native American Churches (NCNAC) called for the establishment of the IPCI. “The coalition of the NCNAC were involved in PRP 2, and the collective decided that conservation itself needed to be addressed. Hence, IPCI was born in 2017,” says Iron Rope. “The Church is a religious, spiritual organization, however, peyote is a cactus that needs its own attention as far as its conservation status.” IPCI is not a religious organization, but a conservation center focused entirely on supporting the broader NAC community in North America. It is led by a Board of Directors controlled by NAC leaders from across the United States.
In late 2017, the NCNAC secured 605 acres of peyote habitat in southern Texas, often referred to as “the 605” on behalf of IPCI, with the help of the RiverStyx Foundation. Later that year, IPCI was formally established with the aim of empowering Indigenous communities across the U.S., Mexico, and Canada to conserve and regenerate peyote for generations to come. IPCI operates as a non-profit, officially becoming a 501c(3) organization in 2018. In early 2019, IPCI held its first peyote harvest on the 605, educating children alongside their families on how to harvest in an ecologically and spiritually respectful way.
Unlike other conservation initiatives, IPCI is a cooperative Indigenous-led initiative, and is employing a range of biocultural strategies in order to conserve, as well as facilitate spiritual reconnection with peyote. Beyond purchasing land allotted for peyote conservation, they are also building alliances with local landowners, and developing a system of harvest and distribution that is in line with their values.
IPCI considers the rancher community in south Texas an important ally in its efforts, and its members have established an ongoing relationship with landowners from whom they lease land for biocultural harvesting and replanting. “Sharing our perspective as practitioners with the ranchers, we were encouraged to seek our own land and regain sovereignty over our medicine,” shared Iron Rope. “Most ranchers that we spoke to had a lot of issues concerning poaching, and lack of respect for their land making them fully supportive of our cause.”
How and When Did Peyote Become Endangered?
For decades, Indigenous cultural practices and peyote ceremonies were suppressed across the U.S., with peyote ceremonies being illegal in many states where peyotists practiced. It wasn’t until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) was passed in 1978 (and further amended in 1994 to expressly include peyote) that the NAC was finally granted exemption on a religious basis, allowing federally recognized tribes to use peyote as a ceremonial sacrament. The possession, transportation, and use of peyote by persons who are not members of federally recognized tribes remain illegal under federal law.
The endangered status of peyote is by no means a new problem. According to Dawn Davis, a Shoshone Ph.D. candidate at the University of Idaho and an Indigenous researcher studying the peyote habitat, researchers and scholars have been talking about peyote’s endangerment since the 1960s, when so-called “hippies” became aware of its “psychedelic” properties.
In the heat of the 1960s countercultural revolution, peyote was brought to public attention, gaining worldwide popularity through the works of Aldous Huxley and Carlos Castaneda. Their writings generated a newly sparked interest in the psychoactive properties of the plant and resulted in an influx of eager psychedelic tourists traveling to Texas and Mexico to seek out the famed cactus in its natural habitat.
To some extent, this trend continues today as we find ourselves in the midst of a psychedelic renaissance, and interest in the therapeutic potentials of visionary plants continues to grow. Such “psychedelic tourism” has inevitably impacted the availability of peyote for Indigenous groups. In fact, it was the countercultural movement of the 1960s and the corresponding interest in psychoactive substances that resulted in the U.S. government enacting The Controlled Substances Act of 1970, which classified peyote as a Schedule I substance.
Due to improper harvesting techniques and overharvesting, peyote populations were left decimated, and it was declared an endangered species in Mexico as early as 1991. Currently, peyote is listed as “vulnerable” as populations in the wild continue to decline. “The International Union for the Conservation of Nature placed peyote on their red list as a vulnerable species in 2009 and the next level after re-evaluation of the population, it could move to endangered status,” says Davis. “It is also important to acknowledge that within the United States, in Texas, peyote is considered an endangered species at the local level.”
Other threats to peyote populations are largely a result of exploitative land management practices, including mining, oil and gas development, the construction of wind turbines, rancher root plowing, cattle grazing, and poaching. “Over the last ten years, wind turbine development within peyote gardens has had a huge impact on peyote populations, completely extirpating large populations of cacti from the natural range,” says Davis.
Another less obvious threat to peyote lies in the ongoing debate between Indigenous groups and the decriminalization community. Earlier this year, IPCI and NCNAC leaders produced an official statement in response to Decriminalize Nature Oakland’s resolution to decriminalize all plant medicines, including peyote. Although those working with Decriminalize Nature (DN) might have been well-intentioned, NCNAC leaders felt disappointed in Decrim’s failure to consult with Indigenous peoples, as well as their oversight of the cultural and religious history of peyote and the plant’s endangered status. The NCNAC’s statement requested that Decriminalization initiatives should not include peyote in their efforts to decriminalize all plant medicines, with the concern that it would provide citizens with a false sense of legality. Indigenous leaders fear that the decriminalization of peyote could unintentionally cause damage to populations by serving to “increase interest in non-native persons either going to Texas to purchase peyote or to buy it from a local dealer who has acquired it illegally and unsustainably in Texas.”
Very recently, Decriminalize Nature Santa Cruz issued a formal apology to the NAC for not consulting with them prior to proceeding with the resolution to decriminalize all entheogenic plants and fungi. DN Santa Cruz’s apology was accepted, and both the NCNAC and IPCI have stated that they “look forward to building a continued relationship based on unity, solidarity, and allyship.” DN Santa Cruz hopes other Decrim efforts will follow their lead, building a respectful relationship with Indigenous peyote practitioners.
A licensed distribution system was established in Texas as a regulatory companion to the federal exemption for Native religious use of peyote. This system employs licensed dealers, also known as peyoteros, to legally harvest and distribute peyote to NAC members, however, not all peyoteros necessarily consider Indigenous values of spiritual and ecological sustainability.
There have been issues with over-harvesting and improper harvesting by the current licensed dealers. When harvesting is done sustainably, the top of the root hardens and is able to produce more peyote pups in the future. Peyoteros (and black-market poachers) sometimes sever the root, causing the entire plant to die.
Iron Rope expressed IPCI’s intentions of being inclusive of and working with existing peyoteros, wanting to build relationships with them and start a dialogue about sustainable harvesting techniques. “The IPCI are a new family in the neighborhood,” he says. “We come as friends, as neighbors, as partners, and we don’t want to engage in any type of conflict.” However, IPCI also wants to take a step towards sovereignty, training Indigenous distributors so as not to rely solely on current suppliers.
“As Indigenous practitioners, it is important for us to reconnect in order to gain the full spiritual benefit of our medicine,” Iron Rope shared. “We are learning how to sustain our peyote for generations because a lot of our tribes have never harvested medicine and we have become lazy in a sense, relying on the non-practitioner distributors to send it to us in the mail.”
At the beginning of this year, there were four licensed peyoteros. According to Davis, the process of becoming a licensed peyotero is both time-consuming and costly, involving submitting an application to the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). Up until last year, peyoteros were licensed through the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS). However, the law has changed and the DPS regulatory program was dissolved, making it only possible to acquire a license through the DEA.
“The stringent process of becoming a licensed peyotero involves annual application fees and thorough background investigation, but as far as harvesting protocols and regulations, there are now none,” adds Davis. “This has contributed to a lot of the issues that peyote is having in regard to propagation, because distributors aren’t necessarily harvesting ecologically. “If you look at pictures taken from peyote harvests, you can see that a shockingly high percentage of peyote are harvested unsustainably.”
Even if harvesting protocols and regulations were implemented through the DEA, Davis is doubtful that they would be effective, in that peyoteros operate in sparsely populated areas and such regulations would be hard to monitor. She also fears that increasing regulation would push distributors out of the business, making it more difficult for tribes who don’t have a connection to landowners in Texas to access their medicine.
“I feel that there is a more organic way of resolving this than relying on western law,” says Davis. “Rather, NAC practitioners could prevent these issues by educating fellow peyote practitioners about what a properly harvested peyote button looks like, encouraging them to buy sustainably harvested peyote.” Demanding properly and spiritually harvested peyote is the first step to bringing about lasting change.
How Can The Psychedelic Community Respect Indigenous Traditions?
As the psychedelic renaissance continues to unfold, it is increasingly important that we learn from the mistakes of the past, and make efforts to avoid another wave of colonial entitlement when it comes to peyote as a plant medicine.
Despite being given such reverence by Indigenous tribes and the NAC, peyote traditions have been extremely misunderstood by outsiders for centuries. From the persecution of peyote traditions beginning in the early 1600s by Spanish colonists in Mexico to the 19th and 20th-century legal suppression of peyote practices in the U.S., Indigenous people have had to undergo countless struggles to ensure the continued use of their sacred medicine.
Rather than feel entitled to peyote, the psychedelic community can serve as an ally to Indigenous communities by listening and choosing to support them in the ways that they wish to be supported. “It starts off with respect. Those that want to help can do something as simple as supporting Indigenous initiatives such as IPCI,” offered Iron Rope. “Indigenous people know what is best for them for the most part, and allowing them to take lead on certain matters is important.”
Beyond this, Davis expressed that one of her biggest concerns as a practitioner and a researcher is that non-Indigenous people should try to understand the history of peyote and what Indigenous people have endured in order to access and use their medicine. “Peyote went back underground until the passing of the AIRFA amendments in 1994, and now we have this movement pushing for peyote to be a sort of ‘free for all,’ and completely negating the historical struggle of Indigenous people’s use of peyote.”
Further, Davis also urges people to stay clear of harvesting wild peyote populations anywhere throughout its range, suggesting that one of the most important things that allies can do for peyote is to take the position that they will refuse to harvest wild populations while encouraging others to do the same. “Whether it be in Texas or Mexico, people who are truly respectful of this medicine- this plant, this way of life, will not harvest any wild populations because of peyote’s status as a vulnerable species with potential for future extinction.”
As we traverse the developments of this renaissance, it is crucial for our community to be aware of the impact we have, not only on mainstream culture, but also on Indigenous communities who have so frequently been left unheard. There are several steps that we can take to support peyote conservation, including sharing information about peyote conservation issues and educating oneself on the ethical considerations to be made when choosing to buy or use peyote outside of a bona fide NAC context, which must include awareness for the socio-historical baggage specific to this plant medicine.
About the Author
Jasmine Virdi is a freelance writer, editor, and proofreader. Since 2018, she has been working as a writer, editor, and social media coordinator for the fiercely independent publishing company Synergetic Press, where her passions for ecology, ethnobotany and psychoactive substances converge. Jasmine’s goal as an advocate for psychoactive substances is to raise awareness of the socio-historical context in which these substances emerged in order to help integrate them into our modern-day lives in a safe, grounded and meaningful way.
Is Salvia divinorum more than just a crazy trip? And what would salvia therapy or spirituality even look like?
Like many teens in the mid-2000s, I took a bong rip of Salvia divinorum extract in a group of laughing friends, and didn’t feel the need to touch the plant again. The 5 to 10-minute trip completely took me out of my mind, body, and surroundings in what I’d still, to this day, categorize as one of the most intense psychedelic experiences of my life. In the dreamlike state, I was walking on clouds and then found myself stuck in a cave where I had to move boulders aside to escape. As the cave slowly faded away and I drifted back to reality, I found that I was on my hands and knees in the corner of my best friend’s room, moving scissors and other art supplies around. I looked back to see my wide-eyed friends still sitting on the bed, bong in hand, staring at me, simultaneously giggling and relieved to see that I had returned.
When Psychedelics Today co-founder, Joe Moore, asked me to look into salvia for my next article nearly 15 years later, I laughed out loud, recalling that cave and the thrashing, ripping-apart-of-the-body feeling that salvia can give in high doses, and said something along the lines of “that shit is crazy.” But through researching this piece and talking to experts, I’ve learned there’s so much more to Salvia divinorum than smoking that weird black extract that was easier to get than booze or weed when I was 17- that there are people both in indigenous communities in Mexico and psychedelic societies in San Francisco who are developing deep and healing relationships with this purple flowering plant that contains the strongest naturally occurring psychedelic on our planet.
Indigenous Salvia Ceremony and Practices
The oldest standing Salvia divinorum tradition is held by the same indigenous community that still practices magic mushroom ceremonies, the Mazatec of Oaxaca, Mexico. “For us Mazatecs, salvia is very sacred,” says Inti Garcia Flores, Mazatec professor and archivist. Over WhatsApp, he explains to me the Mazatec legend of the origin of Salvia divinorum, or “La Pastora” (Spanish for “the shepherdess”) as he refers to it during our conversation. Essentially, salvia was one of the first three plants in existence. Tobacco was the first plant, who is a male spirit and the father. Then came salvia, who is a female spirit and the mother. Lastly, the mushrooms were born, who are the children.
To prepare for such a powerful encounter, part of the Mazatec tradition is a 40-day cleansing period before the actual ceremony. When it’s time for the ceremonial encounter with La Pastora, prayers are said while leaves are picked from salvia plants that grow around the Sierra Mazateca mountain range. Notably, it’s the only region in the world where this psychedelic strain of sage grows, and it has likely been propagated by indigenous people of the land for hundreds of years and possibly longer.
Salvia is consumed in ceremonies which are held at night, in the home of a curandero (Spanish for “healer”), and in front of an altar that typically faces the west. Then, the leaves are either chewed and swallowed in pairs, or drunk in a kind of salvia mash tea, but the plant is never smoked. Mushrooms are also consumed in pairs in Mazatec ceremonies to represent the duality of life: the masculine and feminine energies- a necessary balance, which, as I understand it, is a core concept in their spirituality. Garcia tells me that approximately 40 leaves are eaten for a Pastora ritual, sometimes more. It really depends on the curandero and the purpose of the ceremony. “Every curandero has their own style,” explains Garcia.
And to my surprise, ceremonies last about four to five hours, approximately the same amount of time as the effects of mushrooms. Then, the ritual is to be followed by another 40-day cleansing period. As far as the purpose of these ceremonies, healing and divination are two of the main reasons for seeking out La Pastora, and it’s especially common to use salvia when mushrooms aren’t in season (mushrooms only grow in the rainy season in Mexico, which is generally May through September. Garcia tells me that salvia, on the other hand, grows year-round).
Personal Salvia Divinorum Rituals
Learning about the sacred power of La Pastora got me thinking about the bad rap salvia has gotten in the west as a crazy and unpleasant, short-acting psychedelic. By smoking it, especially in extracted form, are we disrespecting the delicate plant spirit, and therefore missing its healing potential? But not everyone outside of the Mazatec community are teens like my friends and I were, tricking each other into smoking salvia. In fact, there are some folks using Salvia divinorum in a ritualized manner for healing trauma and other psycho-spiritual matters, like spiritual emergence coach and marriage and family counselor, Michelle Anne Hobart.
For Hobart, who’s also the author of Holding Sacred Space, salvia came to her in a time of need. She was recovering from trauma when she was guided to salvia, and the plant had a message for her: “Let go of all other practices for a year and work with me alone.” So that’s exactly what Hobart did. She formed a relationship with salvia in its tincture form. “She was very specific with me that I was only to take it in sublingual tincture form and not smoke it,” Hobart tells me over the phone, referring to salvia with feminine pronouns, just as Garcia had done.
In fact, Hobart’s salvia ritual had some similarities to the Mazatec tradition. She practices a pre-ceremony cleansing period where she only eats vegan and refrains from smoking or drinking (a practice that has now become a lifestyle). She also consumes La Pastora in front of her own altar with much prayer and meditation involved. For Hobart, this protocol has helped her reconnect with herself and her body, and she feels the short psychedelic experience (taken sublingually, she reports the experience lasts about 90 minutes to 2 hours) is very manageable and “integratable” for her as a highly sensitive person who is recovering from trauma.
Hobart spent much of her monogamous year with salvia working in low dose ranges that gave her a more spacious quality to her meditative practice. She explains that for those with trauma, even meditating or connecting with the body can seem like “a daunting, almost impossible task.” But by working with different levels of salvia and titrating her dose to cautiously work her way up to a higher dose range, it became more manageable. “If there was anything I learned in my experience of healing trauma with salvia, it’s that I don’t have to go to the top plateau to do the work. There’s work at every level and you can be gentle and compassionate with yourself and your nervous system. And honestly, you can integrate better when you titrate.”
That was especially interesting to me as someone who went straight to a smoked high-dose salvia experience. Are there really other levels to this medicine that are less intense? Hobart definitely thinks so, and when I ask her about the uncomfortable feeling in the body at higher doses, she reports that with her tincture protocol, she doesn’t find that to be the case. She explains that she views a salvia trip as having 3 phases: the clearing phase, the resourcing phase, and then the re-embodiment phase. At higher doses in the clearing phase, she can have visions, which she interprets as a cleansing that’s connected to the trauma she holds in her body. Then, in the resourcing phase, she can experience a type of ego-loss where she becomes one with the earth, which helps her release the trauma that can come up during the clearing phase. “It helps me realize I’m more than this body,” she explains.
Then in the re-embodiment phase, she returns to herself, “clean and free of that trauma.” Hobart specifies that she’s not completely free of trauma though. “There’s always more work to do. But in that moment, for that piece of work that needed to be done, I can re-inhabit my body in a safer way than I ever have before.” In that year of regular practice, Hobart was able to clear a lot of trauma, which, in turn, helped her anxiety decline. “I was able to return to my own sovereignty and empowerment through the understanding that this story is mine to tell,” she says.
Somatic Salvia Therapy and Effects
Christopher Solomon, who is a somatic salvia guide, went down a similar path with the plant that started over 10 years ago. He had smoked salvia a handful of times as a teen in the early 2000s and found the experience pretty bizarre and unwieldy. “It just didn’t really make much sense,” he tells me over Skype. But one day, as he was loading his bong with salvia, he received a “download” from the plant. “Out of nowhere, there was a feeling inside of me that just said: ‘Wait. Meditate first.’” Even though he didn’t have much of a meditation practice at the time, he took 10 deep breaths before inhaling the salvia, “and it was just completely different… it was a lot smoother and more gentle on my system,” Solomon explains. “It was more grounded. Instead of me being taken elsewhere or torn apart, it was more like this other reality unfolded gracefully in front of me.”
Now, over ten years later, he’s also developed a very intimate relationship with the plant and its many levels of psychedelic experience, and he’s even started to guide others through salvia journeys. Like Hobart, Solomon also sees a lot of benefits in working in lower dose ranges. In fact, he’s theorized the salvia experience has about 10 levels, and a lot of the most therapeutic work is done in levels 1 through 7. Solomon explains that levels 1 through 3 are almost sub-perceptual.
“It’s very akin to being taken [to] a very, very deep, still place in meditation. One’s breath becomes deeper and there’s a feeling of grounding down and opening up. It’s not opening up to [the] world around one, it’s more as if one’s body is opening up to itself, like an internal opening. There’s a sense of slight physical tingles that come on the body and then the chattering mind gets a little bit less chattery. It can be summed up as being taken to a place of quiet, deep stillness.” He adds that finding this place in regular meditation practice can be very difficult for a lot of folks, echoing a sentiment Hobart expressed about how daunting it can be for those with trauma to try to reconnect with their bodies. But according to Solomon, in levels 1 through 3 of salvia, focusing on one’s breath feels pleasurable and comfortable, even euphoric. “It really increases your ability to remain attentive to whatever you put your concentration on. With the quieting of the mind comes a greater ability to concentrate on one’s own embodied self and be very present.”
This is a key concept in somatic therapy, in which Solomon is certified. “One of the main premises of any sort of somatic work is coming back to what is in the present,” he explains. “And instead of getting caught up in stories, expectations or memories, it’s about coming to the present moment- to the now, and seeing what’s right in front of one and seeing what we think.” When it comes to the salvia experience, the sense of presence that the plant insists on can be very healing. For Solomon, the lesson has been very clear- that learning to be present in the current moment is key to living a healthier, happier life. Salvia taught him: “Don’t worry about the future. Don’t worry about the past. Just be here now, and engaged, and aware, and playful. And then everything else kind of works itself out.”
These messages from salvia often come in the next dose range, in levels 3 through 7, where the feeling in the body becomes more intense (sometimes called “salvia gravity”), and visions, entities, and being taken to a new reality are more common. However, Solomon notes, the best preparation for these higher dose experiences is working in levels 1 through 3 first and getting comfortable there. But many of us don’t know about this preparation or don’t bother, and are shot straight to levels 9 or 10 on our first trip of smoking a bowl of 20x or 50x extract, and in turn, are completely turned off by the intensity of the salvia gravity sensation.
But when you prime your body first by titrating your dose and starting in lower, sub-perceptual dose ranges, “the pushing feelings do happen in your body, but it doesn’t feel as aggressive or foreign. It feels a lot more controllable instead,” says Solomon. And this is where things get really interesting and hard to explain. But through his deep practice with the plant, he’s learned that you can control those pushing and pulling feelings, or “energies,” and direct them towards parts of your body that need healing. Solomon’s most profound example of this is also the experience that led him to pursue sharing salvia with others as a somatic guide. Essentially, a few years ago, he had a swollen lymph node in his neck for months that he tried everything to cure, including three courses of antibiotics and diet and lifestyle changes. “But no matter what I did for months, there was this big swollen lymph node in my neck. It just didn’t go away.” At the time, he consulted with a couple of doctors who both said he needed to have his tonsils removed.
Before having the surgery, he decided to turn to salvia for the first time in nearly 2 years. “I smoked a bowl of 20x extract,” he says, “and usually when I do, I feel this pulling and pushing sensation on my body coming from outside, or it feels like I’m being moved through time and space.” But this time was different. “I felt all this energy tingling, kind of like little ants rushing up from every extremity of my body. And it all went straight to where the swollen lymph node was. This energy was congregating around the swollen lymph node and a thought came to me: ‘Oh, well, let me just heal myself.’” He says his hand “automatically picked itself up,” and he began pressing on his swollen neck like he had done many times before. But this time, as he rubbed his lymph node in a circle, “I felt it split in half,” he recalls. As he kept rubbing, it kept splitting. “It got smaller and smaller and smaller. It felt like tiny little grains of sand. And then those split even more, and it kept dividing until I couldn’t physically feel it anymore. Then all that energy that initially rushed to that part of my neck rushed over the rest of my body.” He reports that he laid there for about ten minutes until coming to, and his swollen lymph node was totally gone, and has remained absent ever since.
A Profound Salvia Divinorum Healing Ceremony
Kathleen Harrison, famous ethnobotanist, writer, psychedelic elder, and co-founder of the Botanical Dimensions library in Northern California, told a similar story in a talk at the Entheogenesis Australis conference in 2018. She sought out a Mazatec curandero who specializes in salvia healings and had a traditional ceremony in the highlands of Oaxaca. At the time, she was experiencing a lot of heart trouble and doctors told her that the only way forward was lifelong medication to manage her condition. But in a ceremony with salvia, she felt a female presence wave a hand right through her body and physically take her pain away. “A little door opened in my heart. It blew open like a sudden breeze had come, and I just saw this hurt fly out and dissolve. And my heart was better. I never had another problem with it,” Harrison describes in her talk. When she got back to her California home, medication was no longer necessary.
These healings are hard to explain in terms of what’s happening in the brain, even though there are psychedelic researchers looking into Salvia divinorum at Johns Hopkins and other universities. Formal research began in 1994, when ethnobotanist and researcher Daniel Siebert first isolated the psychedelic compound in Salvia Divinorum – Salvinorin A – and published his findings. Since then, Siebert has become salvia’s champion: he founded the salvia information vault, Sagewisdom.com, which includes a salvia safe-use guide, and he ended up piquing the interest of psychedelic researchers and run-of-the-mill psychonauts alike.
Is Salvia Legal?
Today, salvia is still legal in about 20 states, which makes it easier than psilocybin or MDMA for researchers to study. In 2010, Johns Hopkins University conducted the first controlled human study of salvinorin A, and their team is still looking into how salvia works. That’s partly because salvia is unique in the way it affects the brain, and so offers researchers a novel opportunity to study other psychedelic (and potentially therapeutic) mechanisms of action. Essentially, most classic psychedelics, like psilocybin, LSD, and DMT, mostly bind to the serotonin 2a receptors, and that action is thought to be responsible for most of their psychedelic effects. Salvia, on the other hand, has no affinity for the legendary 2a sites, and instead focuses the majority of its attention on the kappa opioid receptors.
But, How Does a Salvia Trip Work Exactly?
Yet, oddly enough, according to Manoj Doss, a postdoctoral scientist at the Hopkins Psychedelic Research Center (who is the lead on analyzing the latest salvia brain scan data), even though the receptor action site is different, the overall effects on the human brain are very similar to classic psychedelics. “We essentially found the same pattern [that Robin Carhart-Harris found with LSD],” Doss explains. “We got decreases in functional connectivity within network connectivity, so these networks are communicating less within themselves… [and] decreases in Default Mode Network connectivity, [which was the strongest effect]. And, we have increases in connectivity between areas that don’t usually communicate with each other as much.” However, although the effects were “quite similar” to other psychedelics, Doss believes more research is needed. “There are a few more caveats that are going to require a study with a larger sample size,” he says.
To folks like Solomon, while research is exciting, it’s not necessary towards understanding how salvia works for healing. “It’s very somatic medicine,” Solomon says. And it’s inspired him to complete a certification at the Hakomi Institute and provide guided somatic salvia sessions to clients. And unlike other traditions, Solomon’s clients smoke salvia, but not all in one go. In fact, Solomon has invented (thanks to a message from the salvia plant herself) an entirely new smoking apparatus for consuming salvia, aptly named “the salvia pipe.” The contraption has five separate bowls into which he sprinkles just a couple of flakes of salvia for clients. The idea is to titrate the dose to make the experience more similar to a chewed fresh leaf ceremony, which he admits is his preferred method of consumption, but isn’t very accessible unless you grow your own salvia. And so, his clients only smoke a very small amount at a time, then they meditate together for five minutes between each bowl to gradually work up to a level 3, 4, or 5 experience that they can manage and are comfortable in.
Solomon even does guided salvia sessions online, which have become increasingly popular since the pandemic, and the first thing he does is send clients a salvia pipe packed with the correct dose (if the client lives in a state where salvia is legal). He says folks come to him for a whole host of reasons: sometimes just out of curiosity, and others to work on self-esteem, physical ailments, or trauma. “I like to think of salvia as ‘the great neutralizer.’ If you’re feeling up, salvia will help bring you back down to a baseline calmness, or ‘groundedness.’ But if you’re down in the dumps, salvia can bring you up… and that is essentially how it incorporates so well into somatic therapy—because a lot of trauma therapy is getting the person to a sense of feeling grounded and stable, as if they have their own resources… it’s like a hard reset—a reboot to the present.”
Regardless of how Salvia divinorum works, it seems it has a lot of therapeutic potential that’s not getting a lot of attention, especially considering that it’s legal in 20 states. But I believe that’s because most of us go on one incredibly intense and off-putting first date with salvia at a young age and are completely unprepared for the experience. Yet it seems by building a relationship with the plant by preparing one’s set and setting, titrating dose, and being mindful of its sacred power, it can have lasting benefits for those who bother to take the time.
About the Author
Michelle Janikian is a journalist focused on drug policy, trends, and education. She’s the author of Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion, and her work has also been featured in Playboy, DoubleBlind Mag, High Times, Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue. One of her core beliefs is that ending the prohibition of drugs can greatly benefit society, as long as we have harm reduction education to accompany it. Find out more on her website: www.michellejanikian.com or on Instagram @michelle.janikian.
In today’s episode, Joe interviews Author Mike Crowley to talk about his book, Secret Drugs of Buddhism.
Links
About Mike Crowley
Michael Crowley was born February 26th, 1948 in Cardiff, Wales. He began studying Buddhism with a Tibetan lama in 1966, becoming an upasaka of the Kagyud lineage in 1970. In order to augment his Buddhist studies, he acquainted himself with Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Mandarin Chinese. Mike has lectured at the Museum of Asia and the Pacific, Warsaw, the Jagiellonian University, Cracow, the California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, and at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. His work has been published in Fortean Times, Time and Mind: The Journal of Archaeology, Consciousness, and Culture, Psychedelic American, and Psychedelic Press UK. In January 2016, Mike received the R. Gordon Wasson Award for outstanding contributions to the field of entheobotany. He currently serves on the advisory board of the Psychedelic Sangha, a group of psychedelically-inclined Buddhists, based in New York and he teaches at the Dharma Collective in San Francisco.
Its based on Stanislav Grof’s research into psychedelic therapy, holotropic breathwork, transpersonal psychology, and spiritual emergencies
Dr. Stanislov Grof and his wife just launched this program
It’s not just about breathwork
His involvement in the Grof transpersonal training program dropped off in the last few years
He wasn’t allowed to teach breathwork in the GTT model, there wasn’t any growth in the company, so a lot of people like Grof left and started their own thing
Kyle says this is pretty common with trademarks and protocols
Joe says he’s very excited about it
Kyle says Stan’s work is very important and a lot of the reason Psychedelics Today came to be
Peyote
Native American Churches don’t have as much access as they need to properly grow Peyote
Perhaps, in countries where Peyote isn’t illegal, there should be growing of Peyote
Native American’s are in a bad spot due to colonialism
As insiders, we need to talk about how to use less Peyote
“Pick one, plant two” should be the mindset
Kyle says, “how do we just respect these sacred medicines?”
2,561 individuals (mean age 32 years; 77% male) completed an online survey about their single most memorable entity encounter after taking N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Senses involved were visual and extra-sensory
The most common descriptive labels for the entity were being, guide, spirit, alien and helper
41% of respondents reported fear
More than half of those who identify as Atheist before, no longer identified with Atheism after the experience
Out of any other method, DMT seems to occasion the most entities
Throughout my twenties, I spent a lot of time wondering what the meaning of my life was. I was reading Hermann Hesse, Viktor Frankl, and other similar authors, but I couldn’t quite connect those books to my own life. I wanted to know what it was like to experientially engage in a vocation. Reminiscing on this struggle, I was motivated to write an article on my experiences thus far with psychedelic integration, share what has been helpful to me, and provide insight to those either wondering about this practice, studying it, or actually beginning it.
My path towards becoming a licensed psychotherapist was not direct, as I did not receive my clinical license until my late 50s! I can now see, with that lovely 20/20 hindsight, that everything I did led me here, with valuable insight that I would not have had if my path had been more direct. I studied food, nutrition, and painting, had children, taught yoga, and became a certified Ayurvedic counselor before landing on my current path.
My Ayurvedic practice began to really crystalize my direction. Ayurveda is a science of life and embodies the mind, body, and spirit to integrate a lifestyle most suited for each individual. Much of my Ayurvedic practice had to do with clients’ emotional states. As such, I became more focused on the mind. This led me to a conversation with the dean of a nearby university, and shortly after, I enrolled in a Master’s program that had not even been an idea in my conscious awareness the year before.
Plant medicine was not on my radar at the time of my schooling. This path evolved through witnessing the healing that close friends and family experienced. Having had my fair share of psychedelic experiences as a young adult living through the ‘70s, I was always comfortable with the experience but did not yet see it as a healing therapy. After going directly to the source again and having my own experience with this new idea in mind, I now KNEW this was an unprecedented healing modality. I have since expanded my mindset to welcome plant medicines/psychedelic experiences as one of the most effective healing therapies that exists.
For thousands of years, people have been using psychedelic substances to further their understanding of themselves and the universe. Sadly, most of these medicines have been labeled as Schedule 1 drugs in the USA, though this is changing with several FDA clinical trials currently taking place. These research trials are studying the efficacy of using psilocybin as a treatment for depression, and MDMA as a treatment for PTSD. The trials for MDMA are in Phase 3, and the hope is to have this as a valid form of therapy by 2021. In the meantime, outside the US, there are countries where plant medicine is legal now.
Psychedelic Integration is designed to assist those seeking support in connection with psychedelic experiences. Individuals who have had difficult experiences can benefit from a better understanding of the often-challenging feelings stirred up by psychedelics; while those who have found the use of psychedelics to be a positive method of gaining insight can use supportive therapy to bolster and integrate that knowledge into their daily lives (http://www.ingmargorman.com/psychedelic-therapy). This part of the process, before and after the experience itself, is such an integral component of the whole journey. Working together, the therapist helps the client to understand what may happen, guiding them toward the safest set and setting (this phrase describes the physical, mental, social and environmental context that an individual brings into a psychedelic experience), and then fully integrates the experience afterward, perhaps even for months or years to come. We all have the capacity to understand our own selves, but having a guide makes sense of a plant medicine journey or psychedelic experience leads to deeper healing and a deeper understanding of self. I like to think of it like this: if plant medicine is a teacher, then an integrative therapist is a tutor, helping the traveler understand the teachings.
There are 3 categories in which I have been offering integration to clients, not one necessarily more prevalent than any of the others.
Category One: “My husband is freaking out! He did Bufo 3 days ago and he is sitting on the floor of the shower, shaking and crying… he can’t seem to come out of it.”
Category Two: “I found your name on an integration list and I need to talk to someone about an experience I had…”
Category Three: “I’ve been thinking a lot about going to do ayahuasca (or psilocybin, etc). I’ve read so much about it but I feel scared. I’ve never done anything like this before.”
All names and details are changed to protect privacy as I proceed to describe a sample of each category:
Category one:
I received a call from Ron, who was clearly in distress, evidenced by the urgency and desperation in his voice. He was begging me to see him (he lived 2 hours away). He had experienced a powerful bufo journey (the strongest known natural psychedelic on planet earth, tryptamine 5-MeO-DMT, produced by Bufo Alvarius, a toad of the Sonoran Desert). I found out that he was not an inexperienced partaker in psychedelics, as he had gone on an ayahuasca retreat for a week the year before. Regardless, the bufo experience floored him. Until I was able to get him in to see me, I instructed him to go to the beach, assisted by his friend, and sit on the sand, feeling the sand under his hands and legs, and breathe in the healing salty air, using a mantra of “I am safe, I am right here” repetitively. This mantra was to ground him to the here and now. I also had him eat grounding (comforting) foods, which his friend was able to provide (warm stew, butternut squash, soup, etc.).
He arrived the next morning to my office wrapped in a blanket with sand on his feet, as he was coming straight from his second day of sitting on the beach. He was trembling and he didn’t understand what had happened to him. Having been further informed by his friend, and thankfully, with the knowledge of Dr. Stanislav Grof’s work with “spiritual emergency,” I was able to normalize this intensity for him. He was experiencing past trauma (that he re-lived during his ayahuasca ceremonies the year before), but now he was somatically experiencing it, coming up and out of his body, resulting in uncontrollable shaking. Through his tears, he described his trauma as his body continued to tremble. As a child, Ron had been repeatedly molested by his older brother, and when he went to his mother, she told him he was lying. Confused and traumatized, he left home at 11 years old to stay with a friend, and his mother never came to collect him. I encouraged him to just keep on letting his body tremble- that this was a necessary part of releasing the traumatic experience. I found myself moving closer to him and making sure he felt safe. After giving him the encouragement that this was exactly what needed to happen, and with the support of his loving friends and family, he was eventually able to go home, instead of what normally would have resulted in an ER visit (I have to admit, when he first arrived, I thought I would have to refer him to the ER, but am very thankful that this didn’t happen). His trusted friend kept very close by, physically assuring him that he wasn’t alone and he was safe.
Two of his friends brought him back the next morning. Ron already looked better and was able to articulate more about his experience. He went on to meet with me several more times and has been able to process these very difficult events to the point where they are no longer stuck in his body. He has since described a sense of calm that he couldn’t ever remember feeling.
Because of the knowledge of what each of the particular plant medicines can do and how the body processes trauma, we were able to prevent what could’ve been a very detrimental stay in a psychiatric hospital. This is a very clear example of why integration is so important, and particularly with a trained therapist, with prior experience working in an acute care unit of a psychiatric hospital.
People who reach out for integration are looking to understand their experience and process it through their own history and trauma. They’ve turned to plant medicines or psychedelics because what they have been doing hasn’t been working and they’re not happy with how they’ve been living. They have not been able to get through the walls they built to keep them safe growing up (but no longer serve them as an adult).
In a therapeutic environment, there are no “bad trips.” The experience referenced above may appear to be frightening, but as we can see, it was very intense, and yet, very healing.
Category Two:
As for Category Two, I’ll share an example I had with Paul. He called to tell me that he wanted an appointment because he had a psilocybin experience that left him feeling happy for the first time since he could remember. He had been on the verge of suicide many times for the 3 years prior, seeking different forms of therapy and medication to no avail. He could not get out of a deep sadness and numbness that he felt, no matter what he tried. Plant medicine was a last resort, and in his words, if it didn’t work, he was done.
He tentatively arrived in my office and described this feeling of peace and love that he was somewhat desperate to hold on to. This integrative therapy evolved in a way that I didn’t expect, because over the course of a year of our work together, Paul went through some physical symptoms that derailed him for quite some time, but was so closely connected to the fear that kept him from experiencing any joy in his life. As he came to realize that these symptoms were connected to past trauma, and as he realized that he was, indeed, a very sensitive person (this was met with almost disdain when it was suggested in the early stages of therapy), he truly began to heal and come alive. This is an example of what the “spectrum of trauma” means. Paul’s repressed grief had a lot to do with his intense emotions around the death of a beloved pet when he was 11 years old. He was shamed for his grief by family members and peers. By pushing down these feelings of grief, coupled with this new shame, his capacity to feel was also pushed down, and depression became his norm. While this trauma may not appear to be nearly as intense as Ron’s trauma, it affected Paul to the point where he had disconnected from himself, and ultimately, didn’t think life was worth living, although he had no understood connection to the repressed grief at the time.
The psilocybin journey showed him what was possible, but it did not enable him to live a happy life until he got underneath his “firewall” (described below) and worked at it. There was a lot of grief for him to process, and tears came along with shame until it moved its way out. Today, I can happily say that smiling is the norm for him, and spontaneity is part of his daily life. He embraces his sensitivity and sees how it has become a gift to him. He worked hard to get there.
We all have unresolved trauma. Trauma is the response to a deeply distressing or disturbing event that overwhelms an individual’s ability to cope, causes feelings of helplessness, diminishes their sense of self and their ability to feel the full range of emotions and experiences. Some of us have experienced more intense trauma than others, but some of us are more sensitive than others as well. If a disturbing experience led you to disconnect from your true self because what you were feeling was too much, that is the internal impact of trauma. We create a “part” that protects us from this overwhelming emotional pain, assuring us that we will not feel it again. Most of the time, we are completely unaware that we have done this.
These traumas become more clear during integration therapy, as the plant medicine helps to reveal that which we have buried deep in our subconscious. I truly believe that psychedelics/ plant medicine, when used properly, are here to bring us back to our whole self- to show us our own “operating system” that we have created as a result of our experiences, and how there may be some “firewalls” up that are protecting us from pain and keeping us from our true nature. Why would we want to pull down this firewall that has protected us for so long? Because that pain we are protecting is where we are going to find ourselves the most alive. We need to sit with it, feel it, allow it, and finally, let it move its way through us and out. What is depression, but a condition where we feel disconnected from self and others, where nothing will make us feel better because we have lost our way? What is anxiety, but an unprocessed fear that we are not going to be ok? We may have felt like we couldn’t survive this emotional pain as a child (emotional pain can be very intense and confusing for a child, and none of us are exempt from this), but we need to know that we will survive it now. This is also what integration therapy is about- having a safe place to be reminded that you will be okay now. You are safe. You can learn to witness and feel at the same time, thus allowing the firewalls to gently move out of the way.
Category Three:
Finally, I’ll touch on Category Three. Terry called to tell me that she wanted to take psilocybin but was very scared to. Her husband and brother had both taken it and assured her that they would be there for her. Her motivation for wanting to do this was to help understand and heal her Misophonia, a condition meaning “hatred of sound,” which manifested in her becoming highly irritated at many sounds, with the sound of someone chewing or sniffing causing her the most distress. She loved her husband and children, but these sounds, even coming from them, created anger inside of her, which in turn, stressed her out even more.
We talked about some of her history and when the Misophonia began. She described overhearing a conversation between her parents that involved her father being unfaithful with a man. Terry loved her dad, and I believe she did not know what to do with any feelings of anger towards him, and she remembers being really angry at him chewing his food. This wasn’t the first time she thought there was a connection, but she didn’t know how to remove the root of it. We talked about what the set and setting would be like for her journey: music, a mantra she could use as she began preparing for the day, and what her husband could do as her “sitter.”
When we met after her journey, she described feeling so much love and no fear at all. She shared that she had a sure feeling that whatever was going on, there was something inside of her that was going to know how to handle it and know what to do. This was the plant medicine reminding her who she really was. Our subsequent sessions were about connecting with the anger that she was sidestepping and sitting with feeling uncomfortable around that, as she was able to understand that while it wasn’t safe for her at the time to feel anger towards her father, she transferred it to something that did feel safe. Obviously, this was no longer serving her and it was hurting her and her family members. Because of the inner knowing that she received from her experience with psilocybin, she was more easily able to access the anger in our integration sessions afterward, without feeling like she couldn’t handle it. She worked hard through these sessions and in-between, and while the Misophonia isn’t completely gone, she feels it very rarely now, and she is able to easily ride through the irritation.
As a therapist, it is a very rewarding experience to see the recognition in someone’s eyes that “yes, I can handle this and I will be ok.” This concept, called “therapeutic alliance,” allows a client to let go- to begin to trust. Many clients aren’t aware that they don’t trust because they’ve never experienced trust in the first place. They don’t know what it feels like to let go and still feel safe. Somewhere along their road of life, usually in early childhood, the world became an unsafe place to be. This is often due to parents or caregivers unable to see their child’s pain, or not knowing what to do with it, likely due to their own unrealized traumas. The child then learns to do whatever is necessary to survive because their world depends on them burying their intense emotions and “pushing through.” Intense emotions can make someone feel as if they are going to die. The emotion is too big for the child to bear, and often, there are no words to communicate this. If they are not seen by someone who cares, then the child has to figure it out for themself. This is where plant medicine can reveal deep traumas, underneath all of their survival mechanisms, beyond the “firewall.” Of course, there are other methods, but here, we focus on plant medicine.
It takes a great deal of courage (doing something in spite of fear) to put yourself in the hands of a shaman or sitter and enter the unknown. Most clients will say that they were scared but did it anyway.
Another final case I’d like to share: Brian had been addicted to heroin on and off for about 7 years. Many rehabs and detoxes did not accomplish what a 10-day stay at an ibogaine clinic did.
Brian had been on and off with me for about 3 years. We were working on a harm reduction approach away from opiates. This approach involved cannabis and kratom (an extract from a tropical evergreen tree from Southeast Asia, often used to help wean someone off opiates). Brian had already been through Buprenorphine and Methadone enough times to realize they weren’t going to keep him from relapsing back to opiates. The cannabis and kratom approach was up and down, and he still felt desperate. After much talk about ibogaine (ibogaine is a plant-based substance extracted from the iboga shrub, which originates in Africa), he went to a clinic out of the country and was administered ibogaine from a medical doctor. I believe that it is an immense disservice to addicts that ibogaine has not yet been legalized in this country for opiate addiction, although that is a subject for another article (stay tuned!). Two weeks later, he was back in session with me describing his experience, and it was clear that something had truly changed. He was able to see different paths that he took in his life, and how he always had other options. These paths were shown to him in a way that he reports “almost felt like it had rewired my brain. My interest in opiates is just not there”. A year and a half later, still clean from opiates, Brian has been working on creating that trusting relationship with his own self, developing confidence that he can withstand uncomfortable and painful emotions. Without integration, the uncovering of painful emotions could have led back to a relapse.
Thus, integration involves creating that relationship with yourself, dialoguing with that younger version of yourself, and helping your inner child to heal- integrating your OWN self. The word integration is so perfect, because as we are integrating the plant medicine experience, what we are really doing is integrating our true self, beyond all of our ego’s constructions of what was necessary at the time, but no longer serves us in being whole.
What has been most helpful to me as an integrative therapist was my own experiences with plant medicine, particularly ayahuasca. It’s not always easy to “hold space” for some of the pain that is releasing from clients, as the energy can be intense. One of the most important visions I had during an ayahuasca journey in Peru was the night I had a matrix in front of me of all happenings between humans for a long timespan. Certain squares of the matrix would become the focus as I observed specific human mental suffering, abuse, some more benign scenes… some family members and friends I knew… I could move the scene out of the way if it wasn’t something I felt I needed, and focus closer on scenes that were meaningful to me in some ways. I witnessed a scene between a relative and her father that was devastating, as well as several others like this. The reason this was the most important vision for me was I was a silent observer. I was aware of the pain and tragedy, but I wasn’t in pain myself. This is not usually true for me in my daily life, as I feel pain in my own body when someone else is experiencing pain. It has, at times, made it difficult for me as a therapist to hold back tears when a client is in tears, and I have had to momentarily think of something funny to pull me out of this empathic experience. Being able to be aware of the pain in this matrix experience, but not be in pain myself, has helped me tremendously in my practice, as well as with friends and family. I feel less responsible to “fix” it, in a way, because I clearly realize the pain is not mine. This has not made me less empathetic in any way, but it has enabled me to have more clarity. Therapy isn’t about fixing, but helping people to uncover their own guide within; their own inner wisdom. This has become my purpose, to just be a guide in the storm of someone’s life and allow them to see that they’ve known all along who they are, they just need to move their “firewalls” out of the way.
If you are reading this and have been wondering what it might be like to work with people in this capacity, I hope this has been helpful. As Terence McKenna once said, “It’s all about love… making someone else’s existence just a little easier… nothing else matters. I know this now.”
About the Author
Debbie Kadagian became certified as a Holistic Health Practitioner in 2007, specializing in Ayurvedic Health Counseling. She traveled to India to study at the Jiva Institute with Dr. Partap Chauhan. She received her Masters in Social Work from Fordham University and became a licensed clinical social worker. She has worked at inpatient psychiatric hospitals and outpatient treatment centers prior to setting up her private practice. Debbie is also a certified yoga teacher since 2001. Debbie has a true desire to assist people in finding meaning in their lives in order to transcend suffering, addiction, and trauma.
Debbie is the producer of the film, “Healing the Mind: The Synthesis of Ayurveda and Western Psychiatry.”
In today’s Solidarity Fridays Episode with Kyle and Joe, they talk about the Shadow Panel, embracing the weird in psychedelia, what is real, re-examining ‘normal’, and more.
Show Notes
Shadow Panel
Topics in the Panel include
Ayahuasca retreat centers
Maximization culture to use psychedelics for optimization
Ketamine therapy and shadow as aspects of character
It is a study of the spiritual provocations to be found in the work of Philip K. Dick, Terence McKenna, and Robert Anton Wilson
It’s a really nice survey of the weird
“Are you acknowledging what you’re getting by believing something is true? It’s a part of your analysis”
Joe says if you’re into the weird stuff in psychedelics, this book is for you. If you are only into the clinical stuff, then this is good for you.
Kyle says sometimes we don’t give enough credit to the weirdness in the psychedelic space
Corporadelic is a means of spiritual bypassing
The weirdness is core to what the psychedelic experience is
What is Real?
Psyche means more than just mind
When its mind, body, spirit, breath, it seems more accurate
It is worth reading Alfred Whitehead and James Fadiman, Philosophy is important
We are trying to understand and have helpful language around the psychedelic experience
“There are no whole truths, there are only half truths”
Kyle said that at the core of our being, how do we know what is true and real?
At the fundamental truth of what real is, Kyle says that sitting in the CAT scan machine and being on the brink of death, that’s the only place where truth sits for him
Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”
Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.
About Joe
Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.
In 2014 I became aware of a gentleman named Kilindi Iyi in Detroit, Michigan. He was doing some wildly exploratory and esoteric mushroom trips in community with others. Kilindi was one of the most interesting people I had the chance to talk to during my time running my first podcast.
Here is a list of things that struck me as important while speaking with him.
He had a community of peers and students doing very similar work and sharing results.
Kilindi was not afraid to grow mushrooms and was quite public about it.
He used VERY high doses in silence (10+ grams being common).
Some in his community went so far as to do extractions to help stomach larger doses.
His approach of warriorship and courage in mushroom experiences was powerful and unique.
His African martial arts practice hugely informed and assisted his psychedelic work.
To me, he was an important pioneer in the psychedelic world. The psychedelic world will do well to remember him and his work. He did a tremendous amount for his community and our movement. His legacy will certainly continue to help us moving inward, outward and upward for many years to come.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.
3 Key Points:
Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It’s about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it’s not about just constantly escaping this body life.
The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.
Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.
3 Key Points:
Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.
He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
Chris says he’s always been locked into his body and his physical experience
He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness
Protocol
He said you’re always working with a sitter and same context/setting
As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
Chris does not recommend working with high doses
“When you’re working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” – Chris
Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that’s talked about
Consciousness Levels
Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness
Psychedelic Therapy
Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give
Subtle Level
The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn’t know about it
But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level
Potency
Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience
Realizations
With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
“If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” – Chris
“We are moving toward a collective wake up, it’s not a personal experience, it’s a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
“The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris
Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles – a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn – a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).
In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado.
3 Key Points:
Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work.
The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it.
Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege.
Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming
He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy
Alan
Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins
He is a Clinical Psychologist
He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances
5-MEO-DMT
It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad
It’s a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict
Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with
It isn’t as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself
“It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” – Alan
DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other
5-MEO-DMT Harms
Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons
There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT
Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences
An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful.
The facilitators are the problem
If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues
People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad
Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency
Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad
He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal
Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom
It’s a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal
On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom
Oneness
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration
When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them
When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness
Integration has part to do with the experience but then the other part is everything before it, our family, relationships, job, our personality, etc.
“Yeah its cool that we are one with the universe, but so is everything else” – Rafael
Power and Privilege
Privilege means having a voice, but it also means position in society, gender, race etc
In psychedelics, for so long, it has been so hard to find a voice
But with this psychedelic renaissance, it has become so much easier to speak up about psychedelic use, research, etc
The people within the scientific community get put on a pedestal to speak about psychedelic research
Alan says his goal as someone in the middle of the research role, is to create community, to bring every voice to be heard
Being connected to psychedelics in anyway, used to mean prosecution
There are still imbalances that need to be looked at
The psychedelic renaissance is a chance to look at systemic issues
We need to determine what our personal values are, and values of the whole community, and whether or not they are aligned
Final Thoughts
Alan says his goal is to continue having a voice and allowing others’ voices to be heard in this space
Rafael says his goal is to make this therapy more available to those who can benefit from it and not just for the privileged
Rafael is a graduate from the University of Wyoming in Mental Health Counseling. He has worked as a wilderness therapy guide with adolescents and young adults experiencing a wide range of emotional and psychological challenges. He has also worked as a counselor at the Behavioral Health Services unit of a psychiatric hospital treating severe and persistent mental illness and medically supervised drug and alcohol detox. He has worked on several research projects studying the epidemiology of 5-MeO-DMT use in the global population and is also the administrator of 5meodmt.org, an online forum dedicated to hosting community discussions on harm reduction, integration, and safe practices around 5-MeO-DMT use. He is interested in the use of psychedelics paired with therapy for increased resiliency, mental health, and openness. He believes that the counseling relationship is essential to deepen, enhance, and actualize the benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy. He is passionate about finding ways to make psychedelic-assisted therapies available to all those who may benefit from it as well as helping to raise awareness as to responsible clinical applications of psychedelics/entheogens.
About Alan Kooi Davis
Dr. Alan K Davis is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at The Ohio State University and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Psychedelic Research Unit at Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Davis’s clinical experience includes working with people diagnosed with trauma-based psychological problems such as addiction, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. His clinical expertise includes providing evidenced-based treatments such as motivational interviewing, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy. Consistent with his clinical interests, his research interests and expertise focus on contributing to the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance use and mental health problems, understanding how to improve clinical outcomes through examining new treatments, and developing ways to conceptualize substance use and mental health problems through a strengths-based approach.
In this unique episode, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H joins together in conversation with Dr. Andrew Gallimore, Author of Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game. In the show, these two Englishmen discuss Peter’s critique of Dr. Gallimore’s recent book.
3 Key Points:
Dr. Andrew Gallimore’s recent book, Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game, explains how DMT provides the secret to the very structure of our reality.
Based on a recently published review of Andrew’s book, Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H sifts through and confronts Andrew’s idea that DMT allows one access to, and existence in a hyperspatial world.
They discuss Peter’s critique, covering topics on information, consciousness, dimensions, dreams and theory.
The first problem is a critique on what information is
The second point regards consciousness
The third point talks about dimensions and theories
Information
The first problem Peter states says that the originality of the work pushes the ideas further toward art and further away from truth
Andrew says he is a fan of making things a work of art, and he says at the start of the book that it isn’t something scientific
In philosophy it’s called speculative metaphysics
“It’s cliche isn’t it, that science fiction eventually becomes science fact.” – Peter
Minkowski Space Time, the theory that Einstein supports, HG Wells wrote about a half a century before Minkowski wrote about it
Peter says that a person could be defined by a set of numbers, weight, height, age, etc.
Andrew says that the information is the electron, and how it interacts with other information
How do we know that there is not more to anything than that which we can know about it?
How matter creates/is mind is a mystery
Consciousness
Peter asks, ‘does information at a high level produce subjectivity?’
Andrew says consciousness is fundamental
Panpsychism holds a distinction between an aggregate and a hold-on
Andrew says that integrated information is consciousness
Information doesn’t emerge from consciousness, information actually is consciousness
Andrew says that he is an idealist, he thinks that the world is structured
Peter says that information always has to be about something
Andrew disagrees and says that information is substantiated
You could say, the fundamental digits of our reality are ran by an ‘alien computer’, the physics completely different than our understanding of reality
Andrew says that the absolute self is not only aware of itself, its aware that it is aware of itself
He also says that these ideas are all musings, all things he has thought about as possibilities
Peter asks Andrew if he thinks brains are required for consciousness
Andrew says, consciousness is not a property of matter, it is an organization of things
Dimensions and Theories
Andrew says we don’t need senses to experience other worlds
The DMT experience is not mind dependent, it shows another reality
When you’re dreaming, it’s independent of the sensory experience, but its not entirely independent of the waking world
“The dream state is informed by the waking state.” – Andrew
Peter asks, ‘If the brain creates dreams, why does the brain not create the DMT world?’
“We know how the brain learns to construct worlds, but we don’t know how the brain learns to construct DMT worlds.” – Andrew
When looking at a machine elf, is he equally as able to deny his consciousness as we are able to?
Final Thoughts
Peter concludes that Andrew is a Realist/Panthiest
Peter and Andrew think that they don’t disagree with each other, but Peter believes Andrew would have to go into extremely deep detail on all of his points in his book, and the book is thick enough as it is
Peter agrees Andrew’s book is a great narrative for mapping the DMT space
Andrew likes to think of it as computational idealism
Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.
About Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-H
Dr Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher of mind and a metaphysician who specializes in the thought of Whitehead and Nietzsche, and in fields pertaining to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Following his degree in Continental Philosophy at the University of Warwick, he became a Philosophy lecturer in London for six years and has now passed his PhD (on ‘Pansentient Monism’, examined by Galen Strawson and Joel Krueger) at the University of Exeter, where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. He is now to become a postdoc fellow of the university. Peter is the author of Noumenautics , the TEDx Talker on ‘psychedelics and consciousness‘, and he is inspiration to the inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.
In this episode, Kyle talks with Tom Lane, author of Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl. In the episode, they discuss the history of Quetzalcoatl, the ceremony of the deified heart and sacred mushroom rituals.
3 Key Points:
Quetzalcoatl is a feathered-serpent deity of ancient Mesoamerican culture that can come to you when partaking in the ceremony of the deified heart. Quetzalcoatl teaches how to overcome fear and hatred and bring love.
The ceremony of the deified heart is a sacred mushroom ritual that when methods are combined correctly, can bring about Quetzalcoatl.
In the episode, Tom tells intriguing stories of his experiences with mushroom rituals and experiencing Quetzalcoatl, including a ceremony with Maria Sabina.
He was not an Aztec, he originated as a King in the Toltec civilization thousands of years before the Aztecs
As legend has it, where his blood fell is where the sacred mushrooms grew
Some people believe he was a Naga, a combination flow of energy, a male/female serpent
A winged, jeweled, male/female, serpent
In the ceremony of the deified heart, the serpent will come to you
About Tom
He was building geodesic domes in a remote area in Mexico
He had some of his first mushroom experiences, and it led him to realize that the story of mushrooms was about Quetzalcoatl
His first experience with the mushroom was mild
He said the mushrooms found him, he takes them as a sacrament
Ceremony of the Deified Heart
The legend was that Quetzalcoatl gave cacao to participants as an aphrodisiac and it would help release serotonin
The goal is not to talk a lot
Then, the mushrooms are to be retrieved from the ground, fresh
Before the ceremony, Tom says he likes to put four candles placed in all four directions
The key to eating the mushrooms is eating them totally covered with honey
You eat them two at a time, as it represents the male and female
And when you eat the mushrooms, you actually never swallow
You chew and chew and the mucous membranes of your tongue take the psilocin straight to the brain and spine
He says once it starts to take effect, it feels like there is a snake up your spine (He mentions his friends call this Kundalini)
Then you go out and Quetzalcoatl will come
When he comes, he is like a rainbow jeweled serpent, an embodiment of pure light, pure energy, pure love
Tom says the next day it feels like you’re 10 years younger
Its a pure force of love, an obliteration of the concept of time
Quetzalcoatl created this ceremony to bring about the serpent for healing, for a balance of male and female
This ceremony is best done during the night, with thunderstorms in the mountains
Ceremony with Maria Sabina
One night they went to see Maria Sabina
She agreed to do a ceremony at night
Her house was in the mountains and had a thatched roof with no windows or doors and sometimes clouds would come through her house
During a ceremony a lightning bolt came though the house, in one window and out the other
Maria’s daughter gave him truffle like mushrooms and he brought them back with him
Maria’s daughter really tried to learn his name, she repeated it a multitude of times until she said it exactly perfectly so she could say it during the ceremony
Quetzalcoatl Messages
God gave us love and pain
We have to learn how to celebrate the pain
God gave us knowledge, and tools of how to heal the pain
Tom’s goal is to teach people how to take the sacred mushrooms to meet Quetzalcoatl and find healing, love and peace
“Once you get rid of the ego, you get rid of fear, and then you have love.” – Tom
The only way you can overcome hatred and fear is with love
The body is teaching the mind when consuming the sacred mushroom
It’s best to just try to love people and be kind, and it’s all acts of kindness and love that makes a person feel good
Tom, Author, has a Bachelors in Forestry from the University of Tennessee and a Masters from the University of Florida in Science Education and Middle School Education. He has worked full time in the Solar Energy field as a Contractor and Trainer and has a background in Mushrooms. Tom spent some time in 1973 living in the jungles of Palenque in Mexico and learn about mushrooms and mushroom ceremony. Tom is the Author of the book, Sacred Mushroom Rituals, The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview Hamilton Souther, Shaman of Blue Morpho. In this episode, they cover Hamilton’s incredible journey from Western life into becoming a Shaman and the spirit teachings that he experienced along the way.
3 Key Points:
Hamilton Souther, a Shaman of Blue Morpho, shares his experience from living a normal Western life to his journey of his calling, learning and training to become a Shaman. He shares amazing examples of connectedness and spirit while living amongst the natives.
A common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony is that the plants care for you. The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving.
Shamanic training is a long and extremely difficult journey. Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it.
He had some near death experiences and accidents when he was younger
The year after he graduated from college he would go into spontaneous awakenings and altered states of consciousness while totally sober
He would have really intense visionary experiences in those states
Those experiences were so powerful which led him into training and into his Ayahuasca experiences
He felt without purpose and gave himself up to something greater
He turned to shamanism to try to explain the nature of those experiences
Spontaneous Awakening
Kyle mentions that this can happen, that substances are not always required for an ‘awakening’
Hamilton says he wanted to connect to something other than himself
The path took him to Peru, and there was a possibility of meeting people with Ayahuasca
He was being called to it and knew they were real and it led to his ‘apprenticeship’ as a Shaman
It wasn’t by accident that he was there, he had visions that he was supposed to stay there and to learn
Discernment
Coming from a scientific background, he demanded (from the spirit guide) that the process be practical and grounded in reason and logic
He used doubt in a way that he was able to use a lot of proof and truth toward his belief system rather than just being naive and believing these messages too early
He couldn’t envision how to evolve from the vomiting, defecating human on the ground to the composed shaman in the room
Even though he spoke the language, he couldn’t understand what the people were saying when they shared their stories
It seemed like a different world to him
The first few years were learning how to survive in the jungle and learn how to live off of the food
He says it was like reliving his childhood, he had no idea how to walk through the forest like he knew how to walk down a street growing up
The first house he lived in out of college was one he built himself with locals
These experiences were so far from what he grew up in
Toward the end of his apprenticeship, ceremony started to look less impossible and more of something he would dedicate his life to
Spirit
In the indigenous communities, everybody sees spirits, especially at night
And not just in the Ayahuasca culture, its everybody. They thought the jungle was literally alive with spirits
They would say things like “call me if you need me” and they meant it telepathically
Hamilton says “sure enough, they do answer when you call”.
He was in Southern Peru at a pizzeria, and they were in ceremony, and they started to call to him
He had to excuse himself from the table and go outside and sit with himself and went into an Ayahuasca vision and the two men in ceremony said to him in the vision “we just wanted to call to say hi”
So Hamilton, using his doubt, wrote down the place and the time of when this happened, and when he returned from his travels and got back to the community, the two men gave him the coordinates and time where Hamilton was when they called him. It matched perfectly
He realized then and there that they had a very different understanding of the forest and of space time and they were tapped into another kind of knowledge and wisdom
That’s what he was looking for when he came down to the Amazon in the first place
“The mysteries of consciousness are really unexplored and are not studied by science at all” – Hamilton
For Westerners, reality and how it is experienced is just a tiny slice of total consciousness
“When you’re in the amazon, and you’re living in the forest and you’re participating in these visionary experiences, you see the interconnectedness of life.” – Hamilton
“Globally we’ve all agreed that education, literacy and participating in the economy is worth it. I think it’s worth it to really address on a massive scale what were facing collectively. It’s a part of our natural evolution.” – Hamilton
The plants have a very specific role to play, and that they care
That’s a common concept that comes out of an Ayahuasca ceremony, that the plants care for you
The teachings that come from the plants are peace oriented and resolution oriented and opening of creativity and problem solving
Especially with the environmental crisis, people who turn to Ayahuasca start to care for the environment
Psychedelic plants have a huge role to play in global life, individual growth and collective change
Blue Morpho
Its a center that Hamilton and the shamans that he works with created
They did a ceremony to talk with the plants to make sure that this was okay to use as an offering to everyone
It started in 2003 and evolved over the years to practice traditional ceremony and now San Pedro
People come from all over the world to visit them
The majority of the people are really coming for the right reasons, with clear intentions for transformation, growth, exploration and personal healing
Over 17 years they have focused on bettering services and professionalism and they believe they have truly succeeded
Ayahuasca is just one aspect of Amazonian plant medicine
There are hundred of plants with medicinal healing properties
The Dieta is a period of time where you go into deep individual isolation and connection to a specific medicinal plant where you create a relationship with a plant
Then you go into the Ayahuasca ceremony and Icaros are sung and you drink the Ayahuasca
Then the Dieta is a time where there are restrictions such as abstinence, no alcohol, strict food diet, no medications, etc. and you go into a meditative state for healing for a time of a few days, to weeks to even months
Shaman Training
Training comes to the people that feel the deepest calling, because you have to commit your whole life to it
Then, you find a lineage of shamans that are willing to accept you (if you aren’t born into a lineage of shamans)
It’s a journey, and you have to find a group of people open for training
It’s different from any kind of training from the western world, it’s a tremendous journey, and it could take years to decades
Its meant to be a test, and incredibly difficult
When Hamilton trained, he was told that 1 out of 100 make it to be actual shamans
It’s really a job of service, not an exalted one
The reason the training is so incredibly difficult, is so that you can sit with people, who are going through extremely difficult, and transformational experiences and you can be there for them and love and support them unconditionally with the strength gained through the training process
“Its a role of service, you have to be able to deal with any form of suffering that people come to you with.” – Hamilton
Final Thoughts
Stay open minded
He warns about a dystopian world
We need to be the change makers, and there is a lot we can do
We are incredibly powerful, especially when we are united in common goals
Whether they are about human rights or the climate
Hamilton focuses his work on Universal Spiritual Philosophy. He is bilingual in English and Spanish, has a Bachelors degree in Anthropology, and has studied shamanism in California, Cusco, and the Amazon. Hamilton was given the title of Master Shaman by Alberto Torres Davila and Julio Llerena Pinedo after completing an apprenticeship under Alberto and Julio. He guides ceremonies and leads shamanic workshops, in which he shares Universal Spiritual Philosophy.
With the resurgence of psychedelics and the important research into the many therapeutic benefits – from Ketamine for treatment-resistant depression, to MDMA for PTSD, and Ibogaine for addiction recovery, and much more, the myriad lineages of traditional ceremonial and healing ways, as well as the flourishing of radical creativity with entheogenic use, the festival communities, we are all in a time of transformation and potential change for the healing and upliftment of each other and our planet.
These times, and working in these sacred and subtle, sensitive realms require ethics that far surpasses the standards that dictate dominant paradigm interactions. Holding space in a sacred way means attunement, humility, honoring, and most of all, putting aside what you think you know about what’s happening, in service to the one in spontaneous or entheogenically-induced Spiritual Emergence (SE).
The states of heightened sensitivity, openness to multidimensional realms, and to others’ energies requires extra responsibility – the ability to be responsive – on the part of the one who was holding space, witnessing, and guiding. The ones who are in the role of holding vigil must be as attuned as the survivors of trauma and spiritual emergency themselves have had to be.
Those of us who have lived experience of both spontaneous and entheogenically-induced non or extra-ordinary states may be activated and opened into psychic gifts – beholden to the underlying layers of realities and agendas – and when we share our visions and insights, the trauma of both being gaslit and pathologized are damaging in compounding denial of our truth!
In this time of the great revealing, what is hidden is coming to the surface to be seen, held, metabolized, transmuted, and the ethical requirement is that we all make contact with radical openness, radical compassion, and radical humility, contacting the reality that each of us is a bearer of truth, of wisdom, and thus we all deserve to be recognized as embodied divinity and treated with respect and care!
I was traumatized in two different medicine communities, due to lack of attunement, gaslighting, and negligence on behalf of the facilitators, guides, and space-holders. My spiritual emergency and subsequent hospitalizations are directly related to the openings of these intense and deep transformational processes- access to my deepest grief and fear, which had they been held properly, ethically, and responsibly, could have been some of the most healing and corrective experiences of my life, but instead they were some of the most re-traumatizing and isolating.
These spaces, ceremonies, ways are meant to induce opening, initiation, recalibration, and transmutation. When held out of alignment, they become potentially violating, dangerous, and re-wounding, especially for those who have had a history of trauma. As the research shows, entheogenic therapies are potentially very effective in recovery and healing in the right conditions.
What are ethically-held entheogenic containers, therapies, and ceremonies? I can tell you it is NOT forced touch, pushing farther, harder, deeper, or more. It IS attunement, respect, consent, and letting go of agendas. Allowing the Sacred Process to unfold, being guided by Spirit, and the Inner Healer. That is to say, the Inner Healer of the client, and following the needs, and being responsive and responsible to the client. And the necessity for each and every psychedelic therapist and guide to be trained in Spiritual Emergence Support and integration, resources, and acknowledging that the opening into SE through entheogenic use as well as spontaneously, is a deeply transformative process that deserves the utmost care, holding, and respect, as it is inherently an Awakening process, and why we are here in this Time-
To heal together, to return to Wholeness, and to support the activation of our gifts and capacities to be of service to one another and the Planet.
(I delivered this transmission at Will Hall’s Event on 5/4/19 at Oakland Omni Commons)
Featured Image: “Etheric Motherboard of the New Paradigm” by David Wyatt
About the Author
MichelleAnne Hobart, MA, SEC, AMFT is a teacher, writer, energy worker, and Associate Marriage and Family Therapist at Holos Institute. She trained as a Spiritual Emergence Coach with Emma Bragdon and collaborates with the Gnosis Retreat Center project. Her love for the Earth and education was exemplified in her past as a high school Biology and Health teacher working in the Baltimore parochial school system after receiving her BS in Biology from University of Maryland Baltimore County. Deeply longing to immerse herself in the subtle realms, she was drawn to the Bay Area to continue her studies. With her MA in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness from California Institute of Integral Studies, she continued her own personal journey of healing, and then sharing that path with others through her wellness center and intuitive collective. She has been in states of Spiritual Emergence throughout her life to varying degrees, and entered a state of Spiritual Emergency in 2013.. She completed and released her first book, Becoming Sacred Space in 2016. Then, in 2018, Michelle graduated from the Integral Counseling Psychology program at CIIS, and is currently finishing her second book, about Spiritual Emergence.
In this episode, Joe talks with Shane LeMaster, Licensed Addiction Counselor and Certified Mental Performance Consultant. Shane is also involved in Psychotherapy as well as Sport and Performance Psychology and Psychedelic Integration Therapy. In this episode they cover a range of topics such as social work, Ketamine, sensory deprivation, psychedelic icons and the psychedelic culture.
3 Key Points:
Shane has a podcast of his own, and his goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them, to master the potential of our minds.
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics. Its also a great place to start for therapy.
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we won’t have styles to choose from.
Joe and Shane met up recently at a Psychedelic Club meeting about harm reduction in Fort Collins
Shane just got accepted into the PhD program in social work at CSU
He had been pursuing a PhD program in psychology and it wasn’t working out for him so he decided to take the social work route
He works with many people and has developed a strong skill set on the micro level and he wants to start making impact on a macro level with helping people
Social Work
Shane thinks of social work as an integrative approach for every discipline that we find useful, to come to a holistic, greater understanding of an issue
Shane wants to use Ketamine as a ‘medium’ term goal, because it’s legal
But ketamine is not where he is going to stop, he finds there are benefits in many other substances
He would love to work with LSD and Psilocybin
He will continue to offer his services through his business Mind Ops
Shane’s Podcast – Conversations with the Mind
His goal with the podcast is to bring people’s personal experiences to light to learn from them
It’s important to create dialogue and invite people for conversation with differing opinions
The goal is to create a theory that implements both opinions
Ketamine
Ketamine is a great gateway to opening up people’s minds to all of the other psychedelics
Shane has had a lot of personal and recreational experiences on Ketamine and when he returns to it as a medicine, he is able to attain and sharpen skills for mindfulness
Joe brings up the idea that recreational ketamine could have the ability to bring up past trauma or may re-traumatize someone if not used therapeutically
Ketamine has a lot of risks, but being educated and using the substance correctly can be absolutely beneficial
Shane says we shouldn’t try to avoid trauma, we should accept it and use it for good and let it power us
“Sometimes we don’t even know what were suppressing. We need some assistance to show us what were avoiding in life and I think that psychedelics help with that a lot.” – Shane
Sensory Deprivation
Shane says he’s interested in John Lilly’s work from back in the day and his terminology of being able to meta-program your human brain
Joe says John Lilly was a big part of isolation chambers which led to float tanks
Psychedelic Icons
Joe mentions Robert Anton Wilson, he was good friends with Timothy Leary
“My interest is not in psychedelics themselves, but psychedelics as a means to access higher states of who we are, parts we have forgotten.” – Shane
Psychedelics are just one way to tap into ourselves and discover our ultimate potential
“We should all be questioning, everyday, changing our belief systems” – Shane
“Belief is the death of intelligence” – Robert Anton Wilson
Shane says a lot of people give Leary a bad rap, but Shane appreciates what he has done
Joe mentions ‘smile squared’ – Space, migration, intelligence and life extension
TFYQA – Think for yourself question authority
“Turn on, Tune in, Drop out” – Timothy Leary
Shane says that phrase sticks with him, it called to his rebel phase in youth to grow and do this work in his life
The Psychedelic Culture
Splitting – a rephrase of divide and conquer
Joe says the psychedelic world is very cut throat
“We should take care of each other a bit more in this space” – Joe
Shane says, we need to lift each other up versus look for ways to step over each other
Every single facilitator or shaman has different techniques and styles and that’s okay
If we don’t have differences then we don’t have styles to choose from
“We can’t become fundamentalists in our own practices, we need to value the differences culturally and from a world view. They are all valuable.” – Shane
Shane earned his Bachelor of Arts Degree in Psychology from the University of Colorado in Boulder, CO, completed extensive coursework towards a Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Performance Psychology at the University of Denver, and earned his Master of Arts Degree in Sport & Exercise Psychology from Argosy University.
Shane is nationally certified as a Sport Psychology Consultant and a licensed mental health clinician in the state of Colorado. Having worked in community non-profit mental health since 2008, Shane has gained experience working with the entire spectrum of mental disorders and with all populations and age groups. Shane plans on attending a Ph.D program in Counseling Psychology where his interest in Resiliency, Mental Toughness, and Mindfulness Training Program Development can be explored and further developed.
He is a life-long athlete having competed at various levels in more than a dozen different sports. Because of his passion for warrior cultures of past and present, Shane has been ardently developing his own “Warriorship,” training in various forms of Martial Arts for 25 years. Shane feels that the self-discipline, the philosophy of non-violence, the innumerable mental and physical benefits, and the enjoyment that he gains from the Martial Arts is what helped drive his passion in the field of Psychology.
His personal interest in Eastern Philosophy stems from his adoption of a Buddhist lifestyle and blends well with his training in Western Psychological Science. Clients describe Shane as an out-of-the-box clinician that is easy to get along with, knowledgeable on a variety of topics, credible with lived experience, and as having the ability to make therapy fun and interesting.
In this episode, Joe interviews Computational Neuro-Biologist, Dr. Andrew Gallimore, one of the world’s knowledgeable researchers on DMT. In the show they discuss DMT and the possibilities of being in an extended state of DMT, such as accessing higher dimensions and communicating with intelligent entities.
3 Key Points:
This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions.
Andrew has developed and written about the Intravenous Infusion Model, which allows a timed and steady release of DMT to induce an extended state DMT experience.
Extended state DMT hypothesizes that with enough time spent in the DMT space, the ‘map’ of the space would begin stabilize over time and you could develop a ‘life’ in the DMT space like we do in our waking life.
Since age 15, he was into psychedelic drugs and altered states of consciousness
He was at a friends house and was looking at a book called Alternative London and it had writings on different psychedelics but only a very short segment on DMT
His fascination grew from his yearning to learn more about DMT
His interest turned into academic work, learning chemistry and pharmacology and he is now into learning more about the brain itself
He is currently a Computational Neuro-Biologist
DMT
DMT is a compound found almost everywhere in nature, highly illegal, yet highly interesting
Interaction with entities are common
All frames of reference are gone
Andrew says that the first few times were very intense and he would come back with no way to comprehend or describe it
Then after a few more times he started to see the entities and have a more stable experience with more intent
Andrew describes a very vivid experience of a man in a dark robe where he asked him “show me what you’ve got” and he opened his mouth and Andrew woke up a if he had seen God himself. He describes it as a shattering experience
These beings in the DMT experience, aren’t just pointless beings in a dream, they are powerful and extremely intelligent
We don’t have any way to comprehend the levels of intelligence in this dimensional space, we only are ever able to experience intelligence with our human capacity for what intelligence is
There is a sense that these beings are intelligent because they have been around for billions and billions of years or potentially infinitely
Communicating with Intelligent Entities
He calls his book the ‘textbook of the future’
“We are imprisoned in some kind of work of art” – Terence McKenna
This reality is a construct or artifact of the alien intelligence or the ‘other’
“This reality that we are in is a lower dimensional slice of a higher dimensional structure. DMT is a technology or tool that allows us access to reach out to these higher dimensions” – Andrew
DMT is everywhere
“Nature is drenched in DMT, but it takes a high level of sophisticated intelligence to identify it, isolate it, and discover a means of using it as a tool” – Dennis McKenna
“In order to communicate with these beings, we need to bring the right tools to the table” – Andrew
Target Controlled Intravenous Infusion Model – using the same model for DMT as the anesthesia model
It uses administration of a short acting drug using a mathematical model to control the release
“We are not just passive receivers of information but we are actively constructing our world from moment to moment.” – Andrew
Continuity Hypothesis of Dreaming – it says that dreaming is continuous with our waking life, the brain constructs the world when you’re asleep in the same way that it does when you’re awake
Extended State DMT (DMTx)
Our brains are constantly updating its model of reality, so if you put someone through the DMT space for months at a time, that person’s model of reality would completely shift
This idea has been completely unexplored
The hypothesis is that an extended time in the DMT space would begin to make that space more stable over time, the goal being to live in the DMT space as you would in this reality of waking life
The measurement of DMT in the blood with Ayahuasca is 1/5th the level of DMT in the blood as a breakthrough DMT experience
Andrew hasn’t heard of anyone trying the Intravenous Infusion Model yet
There is this space that exists one quantum away, and it is accessible by everyone (technologically, not necessarily legally)
Dr. Andrew Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, pharmacologist, chemist, and writer who has been interested in the neural basis of psychedelic drug action for many years and is the author of a number of articles and research papers on the powerful psychedelic drug, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), as well as the book Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game (April 2019). He recently collaborated with DMT pioneer Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, to develop a pharmacokinetic model of DMT as the basis of a target-controlled intravenous infusion protocol for extended journeys in DMT space. His current interests focus on DMT as a tool for gating access to extradimensional realities and how this can be understood in terms of the neuroscience of information. He currently lives and works in Japan.
In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle interview music artist, East Forest. Influenced by psychedelic Psilocybin sessions, Trevor Oswalt, the mind behind the project, produces soundtracks for psychedelic journeywork sessions.
3 Key Points:
East Forest is a music artist and producer with a mission to create a playground of doors for listeners to open and to explore their inner space.
His recent project, ‘Ram Dass’, captures the words of wisdom of Ram Dass and pairs it with sound, a project with four chapters that will release throughout 2019.
Ayahuasca is connected to the Icaros, but psilocybin doesn’t have a music ritual. His goal with his project, Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner, is to bring ritual to psilocybin journeywork.
East Forest is a 10 years and running music project that unfolded exploring into sharing and medicine circles and developed into a public interface
Its based around introspection and tools for people to use
Between retreats, podcasts and live performance, Trevor is inviting people in to assist with their journeys
Ram Dass
Trevor is working on a 4 part record project with Ram Dass
He had the idea to do a record with spiritual teachers
Ram Dass had a stroke 20 years ago, and he got Aphasia from it
It would take him 15-30 minutes to answer a question, so Trevor would put it to the music and put Ram’s words on the pauses in the music
His wisdom and story would come alive in the songs
The first time Ram Dass did psilocybin was with Timothy Leary and he said it changed his life
Ram Dass talks about the ‘witness consciousness’ a viewpoint of things from the soul
It is a place where you can love everyone and tell your truth and accept your dark thoughts
You can’t get rid of your dark thoughts, but you can learn to live with them
Journeywork Soundtrack
Music for Mushrooms: A soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner
Its a 5 hour playlist for journeywork that guides you and helps you do the work
He made it live during his own journeywork session over a weekend the previous summer
He says he is influenced by Keith Jarrett, who does long form pianist pieces
Joe says trance in music is under explored
Trevor describes a trip that he had where he took mushrooms and listened to his own (first) album that he made
“It was as if I created this album without knowing what I was creating. My soul had tricked my ego into doing it so I could use it as a tool in that moment to transform into something new.” – Trevor
There is a lot of music, science, and arts that are inspired by psychedelics
He describes its a symbiotic relationship between psychedelics and music
That’s the thing about art, you put it out there and everyone puts their own meaning to it
His first experience with psychedelics was in college with mushrooms
He was outside at a festival and it was a very transcendent, blissful experience
Retreats
He attends retreats where there is either yoga, wilderness hikes or mainly revolved around music
He does a retreat using music at Esalen with his partner, Marisa Radha Weppner
They are doing another retreat in June at Esalen during the summer solstice and he will also be releasing the third chapter of the Ram Dass Record
He went to Vassar college in New York and there were pianos all over the school, he learned how to play simple songs and was shocked of how great it sounded coming to life and that fed on itself and he was hooked
His first album was made in iMac with pro tools and his skills developed from there
Sound quality is critical in journeywork
Joe’s friend has mentioned that it’s hard to make a living as a music creator, she goes by Living Light
Joe also mentions a festival he attended listening to Reed Mathis and the Electric Beethoven
They went on a 20-30 minute talk about how the music is a ritual
Kyle used to lead some hikes, once was with Trevor Hall and it has gotten more common to collaborate these experiences with music
Live Music
During Ayahuasca, the shamans sing the Icaros, and the song is a part of the ritual
No one uses Ayahuasca recreationally, the ceremony has never been detached from the drug
With psilocybin, in the western culture, it’s almost always only been used recreationally
His goal was to create a new musical tradition that would speak to our western years and make sense to us without taking from another religion and putting it to our ritual
East Forest is an American Ambient/Electronic/Contemporary Classical/Indie Pop artist from Portland, Oregon, United States. The project was created by Trevor Oswalt who derived “East Forest” from the German translation of his last name. To date he has released eight full-length albums and six EPs. East Forest’s newest release, “RAM DASS” is a full length album releasing in collaboration with the acclaimed spiritual teacher. Covering topics such as dark thoughts, nature, the soul and so much more, these songs are full of inspiration. The album will release in four “chapters” throughout 2019, culminating in a full length release on August 9, 2019.
In this episode Kyle sits down with a close friend in the psychedelic space, Lucas Jackson. They have shared many experiences such as Near Death Experiences, leading breathwork workshops, and other similarities. They cover topics such as the Near Death Experience, Ayahuasca experience, Breathwork tools, and accepting death, finding meaning and integrating these exceptional experiences.
3 Key Points:
Exceptional experiences are not always euphoric and light, they can also be dark and cathartic and make it difficult to transition back into ‘real life’.
Lucas explains his Ayahuasca experience as his darkest and hardest. He felt alone with no help, no one to talk to to help understand it, he felt as if he actually died. But this gave him a realization and acceptance of death.
The key to making it through and putting understanding to the dark experiences is having the right tools, such as a community of understanding people, practices such as breathwork, yoga, meditation and just simply coming back to the breath.
Lucas’ interest in psychedelics started in high school, the books that he read then were influential
He had a near death experience at 19
He came down with a lung issue and was in the hospital for 2 months and in and out of different stages of consciousness
After that experience his interest for psychedelics and breathwork grew
Lucas describes it not totally as a single NDE but more as being so close to death for an extended period of time
He says it wasn’t mystical and great, coming back to ‘real life’ had some dark qualities
Revisiting a Dark Past
Lucas says he wrote stuff down when he was in the hospital with a breathing tube and couldn’t talk and one day he went through it all and it was very dark and cathartic
When he went through and read his past writings, he said that he felt sympathy for the ‘him’ that wrote it
He says it is hard to remember the person he was before his experience and illness
Breathwork
After he dropped out of school, he started up a farm in Vermont and then toward the end of that he started to feel restless and there were synchronicities that led him to breathwork
He heard that Stan Grof was going to be doing a talk at a local bookshop and he met Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson
He ended up doing breathwork training in New York
He explains the experience as more powerful than what he would have imagined
He said he wanted to tell everyone about it after the first breathwork experience
Kyle says its common with any exceptional experience, people want to run and tell the world
Lucas says the sitting was just as powerful as the breathing
It’s not often that you have someone sit at your side for 2-3 hours giving you full attention
Lucas says that his GTT training was supposed to take 2 years and he thought he was going to get through it in 2 years no problem and he is in his 5th year doing the program and he loves the pace
Kyle says that part of the training in breathwork is doing your own work
Lucas says with this kind of work, you don’t get through it and you’re done, It’s a continuous process
Robert Anton Wilson’s ‘maybe’ logic helps Lucas with being okay with not knowing
He had a few experiences where he went through a ‘death’ feeling, and then he would let go and blast through this ‘light’ and then feelings oneness and wholeness
Ayahuasca
Lucas went through the ‘death’ experience and thought it was actually real, he felt complete void and nothingness
That experience haunted him for years
His ayahuasca experience was really about the purge, letting go of absolutely everything
The remoteness of the experience was what he was seeking, being so far removed from everything he had known, everything that made him comfortable
The shaman was known for his potency of the brew
There is no consistency among the dosage
He felt very alone during the experience, he had no help, but it was almost special because it taught him that he is alone always anyway so there was some comfortability with the realization
The shaman didn’t speak English and the messages that he received through the translator didn’t make him feel completely safe about his experience
It took him over 3 years of chewing on the content and the questions before feeling somewhat okay
Lucas’ advice to anyone wanting to do this is ‘take off, make time for this, you’ll need more time than you think’
“I believe that there is a collective pool to tap into, where you’re processing the suffering of all, and once you hit that, it’s an abyss and you have to surrender. It can be so freeing.” – Lucas
Spiritual Emergence
Lucas says there wasn’t any day or event where he felt like he was going to have to go to the hospital or harm anybody, but it’s because he has the correct tools and great community
For him, the first experience was fun and exciting and then you want to do more and then you get into the work and the hard stuff
“What is, waking up?” – Lucas
There’s the Ram Dass idea that the tool will fall away when its usefulness has been exhausted
Lucas says the tool is having a daily practice, and for him its a breathing practice
Grof’s framework was a lifesaver for Lucas
“What are you going to do with the reality you are presented with?” – a quote from The Truman Show movie
“Even if this is all an illusion, why not make this the best illusion, the best dream?” – Lucas
How are we showing up to the world after something so exceptional?
Final Thoughts
What is this world for?
Lucas mentions an Alan Watts video, it says life is like a dance, there is no goal, and then after the dance we sit down
“What is the particular thing that we are trying to achieve? General improvement of all humanity sounds like a good goal. Hopefully psychedelics can be a huge tool in moving towards that.” -Lucas
Lucas says that he isn’t a therapist, but he is available to talk with someone if they may need it. Having an open and welcoming therapist is great, but if they’ve never had an exceptional experience, it’s helpful to talk to someone who has, therapist or not.
About Lucas Jackson
Lucas has spent his life wandering through inner and outer landscapes, collecting experiences, and sharing those experiences with those closest to him. His outer wanderings have led him to working with earth and plants around the world, including starting a biodynamic/permaculture food forest in Central Vermont. Lucas has also spent time working with people who were experiencing extreme states of consciousness while at Soteria-Vermont and while volunteering with The Zendo Project. The galleries of his inner world are made up of psychedelic musings, astrological insights, and various constellations of esoteric traditions. Lucas holds degrees in Environmental Science and Psychology and is currently pursuing an MA in Religious Studies.
Lucas can be reached through his email address at lucasjackson24@gmail.com as well as on Instagram @biodellic. He is available for astrological readings and is happy to meet others interested in discussing the topics covered throughout this episode of the podcast.
In this special interview, Joe and Kyle sit down with Theologian, John B. Cobb Jr., referred to as the Godfather of American Theology. They recorded with John at the conference they all attended in California, on how exceptional experience can help save the world. They cover a range of topics inspired from Alfred Whitehead’s teachings and the promising applications of Whitehead’s thoughts in the area of ecological civilization and environmental ethics pioneered by John Cobb Jr.
3 Key Points:
Process thinking argues that reality consists of processes rather than material objects, and that thinking this way is similar to the teachings of a psychedelic experience. It is hoped for and believed that exceptional experiences can help save the world.
Whitehead’s process philosophy argues that there is urgency in coming to see the world as a web of interrelated processes of which we are integral parts, so that all of our choices and actions have consequences for the world around us.
Certain curriculum, education systems and Universities are not helping us to see the value of our world. A full systems change is needed and hopefully psychedelics, exceptional experiences and process thinking can help with that.
The senses heighten connection, but we shouldn’t rely only senses for our experiences
The label that can we give to the ‘most fundamental relationship’ is any ‘happening’
What’s happening when we listen to music?
We aren’t hearing one tone after another tone, we are hearing the music as a whole piece
Whitehead calls the fundamental relationship of inclusion, a ‘prehension’
How one moment leads into another moment
If the world is made up of prehensions, then in any given moment, what is prehended?
The boundary between conscious and unconscious experience is fuzzy.
Whitehead calls the relatedness to the past, physical prehensions. But we also prehend, potentialities. It is being experienced as potential not as actual.
Whitehead thinks this is present in very elementary matters.
Whitehead says that waves of vibration are a very large part of the world we live in
Whitehead believes that without some type of variation from moment to moment, that nothing really happens
He wrote a lot on relativity and very little about quantum
He wanted to change our language into using words that mean something is ‘happening’ versus using nouns that say that something ‘is’
“If you only have potentiality and too little grounded in actuality, you better be careful. If you don’t have the potentiality, then you live in a deterministic universe” – John
“Does Whitehead relate the potentialities to his ideas about intuition?”
Intuition can be of both pure potentials and about other people
A lot of paranormal experiences are not supernatural
Just because someone has seen something or done something, it doesn’t mean that it’s true. There is plenty of illusion.
Complex Societies
An important feature of Whitehead is to distinguish complex society
Panexperientialism is ‘the view that if evolution of humans goes all the way down to subatomic particles, then human ‘experience’ by deduction must have originated at the subatomic level, which implies that not just humans but individual cells, individual molecules, individual atoms, and even individual subatomic particles, such as photons or electrons, incorporate a capacity for ‘feeling’ or degree of subjective inferiority.’
There might be in-deterministic qualities in individual entities
From a Whiteheadian point of view, contemporary physics would be almost universally valid if the entire world were made up entirely of physical feelings, feelings of actual occasions, ‘what is’.
“What would be opposed to physical feelings?”
Conceptual feelings, feelings of potentials
He thinks there are feelings of potential in every actual occasion
“The attempt to make standard physics apply to the quantum world are a total failure.” -John
“The attempt to make standard physics apply to the human experience is the task of the Neuroscientists. They think that the subjective experience has a causal role to play in the world.” -John
It’s more committed to metaphysics than it is to empirical study
“Do you think what’s going on in the mind, say neurotransmitters or electrical activity firing, that is creating this reality, or the experience, is having an influence on the neurochemistry?”
John says that the psyche plays a role
Scientists who are busy engineering genetic change, tell us purpose plays no role in genetic change
“What do you mean by no purpose in genetic change?”
Purpose cannot have a causal effect in the Cartesian world
They say ‘I know that my purposes are completely the result of mechanical relations between my neurons’
“Could you elaborate on the definition of actual occasions?”
The psyche is a consistent series of actual occasions
Its what kinds of things are in and of themselves, ‘actual’
It’s in the distinction of things that can be divided up into other entities
An actual occasion cannot be divisible into other actual occasions
Like an atom, it is divisible, but dividing it does not keep it from actually existing
For Whitehead, an actual occasion is the basic unit of actuality
Its an alternative to a ‘substance’ way of viewing
When we look at other living beings, animals with brains and such, we assume they have a psychic life
John thinks that plants have some kind of unified experience
Some people have a feeling about a tree, that it’s not just a bunch of cells interacting
“It’s hard for me to think that a stone is an experiencing entity, I think the molecules though are.” – John
“I’m sure that cells are influenced by the emotions of people” -John
Having a particular conceptuality does not define how things are going to map out
“This world view seems very psychedelic.”
Among quantum physicists, Whitehead’s name is known and appreciated.
It may mean that physics as a whole might adopt an organic model than just mechanistic one
The common sense in this is that our knowledge of each other is not just in visual and auditory clues, but people have been told so long that it is
“What else would it be informed by if not by visual and auditory cues?”
Just by our immediate experience of each other
If you go into a room, there is an immediate climate there. You can tell when you walk into a room full of angry people.
The Great Books program needs revision. It’s only been the great western books. John hopes they have incorporated great books from other parts of the world
There are parts of different educational systems that are better than what we have
“If I had an opportunity to create a school, it would be a school that teaches ecological civilization because a healthy human survival is a goal that ought not to be regarded as an eccentric and marginal one, but regarded as what all we human beings ought to be getting behind collectively, together. And if you have a school for that, the curriculum would be quite varied, but the production and consumption and sharing of food should be a very central part of it.” -John
Capitalism has ignored much of reality
John says creating a curriculum is not his role, his role is deconstruction because he thinks what is going on now is absurd
“Enlightenment is the worst curse of humanity, we have been enlightened into not believing all kinds of things. The disappearance of subject from the world of actuality. If that’s enlightenment, then I don’t want to be enlightened.” – John
Language
John thinks we need a lot of reflection on the language we use
The questions that are the most important are the ones rarely asked
“One of my favorite parts of Whitehead is the reframing of language, our words carry inertia that we are not aware of” – Joe
The reason there are 36 universities for process studies and 0 in the United States, is because in the US, process isn’t as fundamental as substance
Kyle Shares his Near Death Experience
Kyle got in a snowboarding accident, ruptured his spleen and lost about 5 pints of blood
It became mystical when he was in the MRI machine and he was standing on one side of the room with the doctors and in his body at the same time
There was an orb of light, and an external voice or ‘experience’ that said “you’re going home, back to the stars where you came from, this is just a transition, the more you relax into it, the easier it will be.”
Kyle describes it as a blissful experience, but he had a hard time integrating it back into his life.
Whitehead has done a remarkable job to describe process, and exceptional experience and putting a language to it
Joe says that Whitehead’s work has helped put the psychedelic experience into words
“Do you recall the first time you heard something that made you interested in the impact of psychedelics?”
Lenny Gibson was probably one of the first people that opened his eyes to the positive uses
“Today, it would be remarkable if 10% of the world’s population survived without civilization” -John
He is confident that there are good things that come from psychedelics
He says Whitehead has made him understand the changes that might make us behave in responsible ways, so he doesn’t feel the necessity of having a psychedelic experiences
“What kind of changes?”
We have to change from our substance thinking to process thinking
We need to shift from thinking that every individual is self-contained, we are all products of our relationships with each other.
In the Whiteheadian view, any individual is, the many becoming one. To be an individual is being a part of everything.
John B. Cobb, Jr., Ph.D, is a founding co-director of the Center for Process Studies and Process & Faith. He has held many positions, such as Ingraham Professor of Theology at the School of Theology at Claremont, Avery Professor at the Claremont Graduate School, Fullbright Professor at the University of Mainz, Visiting Professor at Vanderbilt, Harvard Divinity, Chicago Divinity Schools. His writings include: Christ in a Pluralistic Age; God and the World; For the Common Good. Co-winner of Grawemeyer Award of Ideas Improving World Order.
In this episode, Kyle and Joe host Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown, Authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art. The book showcases the work and inspiration of female artists such as Josephine Wall, Allison Grey, Amanda Sage, Martina Hoffman, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld and many others.
3 Key Points:
Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown are co-authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art, which includes discussions with 18 female artists.
The book and the episode are an exploration of the role that dreaming, psychedelic experiences, and mystical visions play in visionary art.
There is a strong need for a balancing of masculine and feminine energies. Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed.
David’s background is in Psychobiology, the interface between psychology and biology
He spent 10-15 years working in neuroscience and research labs
His interest in Neuroscience came from his experience as a teenager, experimenting with psychedelics
He wrote his first book, The Science of Psychedelics, about 10 years ago
David mentions that the psychedelic renaissance has allowed him to write openly about psychedelic topics that he’s been preparing his whole life researching for
About Rebecca
aka Molly Moon Sparkles
She has a huge creative drive
She is currently studying psychology and is playing in the art program
She is fascinated by entheogens, plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She is a painter and is working on the Molly Moon Magick Series that focuses on the divine feminine
David was so fascinated with the visions he would see on psychedelics and wished that he had the talent to portray it through artwork, and then he began to see artists bring these visions to life
He also saw a lot of gender inequality, that there were more men than women in the visionary art space
It urged him to highlight the under recognized women in visionary art
Rebecca was experimenting with other realms with plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
She says her consciousness was so drastically different from any other time in her life, and she started painting her psychedelic experiences
This led her to begin building community with other artists who shared the same ‘vision’ as her
She said that the psychedelic experience has so much feminine nature to it that wasn’t being voiced
“We are going through a serious ecological crisis right now and the teachings behind the psychedelic experience is to heal the collective and help climate change” – Rebecca
There is an uprising of feminism with the “Me Too” movement, women in congress, women’s marches
Our species has been so dominated by men and we need the nurturing and caring aspects of the feminine perspective
Surprising Aspects of the Women
The most surprising aspect is how much in common the women had
David says it was beautiful how well each artist was connected to each other through their stories
Laura Holden is completely self taught
There were two women from the book that had never touched a psychedelic substance
They were inspired through dreams and daydreams
The psychedelic experience not only inspires the artwork, but it creates a new way of viewing artwork
Kyle mentions that he always wished he could record his dreams
Joe says he has been seeing research around capturing visual or imagined imagery
Discovering the Artists
David discovered most of the artists that he had not previously known through the community Rebecca had been a part of as visionary artists
COSM and Entheon
August 3rd, Rebecca and David are giving a presentation as COSM in New York
Entheon, the Sanctuary for Visual art may be open by them
Entheon will have workshops, painting classes, rooms to stay in, full moon ceremonies, etc.
It will be an art sanctuary, a church with a spiritual and psychedelic essence
Visionary art is getting into museums and becoming a recognized art form
The Desperate Need for Balance
Terrence McKenna told David that early on in human civilization, men didn’t understand the role that sex had in creating babies
The power of reproduction was within women and sex was something else
Once men began thinking that they were responsible for the generation of life, they starting saying its “my baby” its “my wife” instead of ‘our’ baby or the community’s baby. It kept developing into “my child” into “my country”, “MY”.
Then people started using less psychedelics and started consuming more alcohol and now everything is an over exaggerated male dominance
“Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it’s exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed. It could be balanced and harmonized with more feminine energy.” – David
There is a crucial imbalance from male and female in history alone
But more than an imbalance between just males and females, it’s about an imbalance of masculine and feminine energies
Each of us, male and females have both a masculine and feminine energy
We can see the masculine and feminine imbalance in the world and our planet right now. We don’t need to shift to a goddess worshiping planet, but we just need to be back in balance and bring more feminine energy of nurturing and compassion and caring and healing
Penny (an artist highlighted in the book) mentions about Sandos giving LSD to researchers who gave it to artists
Getting Involved
“If you want to get involved in painting, dancing, making jewelry, clothing, gardening, don’t wait. Do it. If you are true to yourself and your own inner visions, you will succeed” – Rebecca
One thing all artists have in common is fear and insecurity, so you can’t let it hinder you from beginning
Final Thoughts
Artists like Android Jones are doing visionary artwork in virtual reality mediums
David thinks visionary artwork will become only even more interactive and immersive spaces
We need to find a more yin-yang balance between masculine and feminine
Rebecca Ann Hill (AKA Molly Moon Sparkle), is a visual artist with a wide range of experience in different creative mediums. She is the co-author and illustrator of “Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams & Mystic Visions”, as well as “Women of Visionary Art.” Primarily a painter, she is creating a new series entitled “Molly Moon Magick,” and her other projects include dancing with “Gold Town Burlesque,” writing a blog -“Go Ask Molly”- and working on a new book about her spiritual awakening.
About David
David Jay Brown is the author of Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics: At the Nexus of Culture, Consciousness, and Spirituality. He is also the coauthor of five other bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, and of Women of Visionary Art. Additionally, Brown is the author of two science fiction novels,Brainchild and Virus, and he is the coauthor of the health science book Detox with Oral Chelation. Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins from 2007 to 2012. In 2011, 2012, and 2013 Brown was voted “Best Writer” in the annual Good Times and Santa Cruz Weekly’s “Best of Santa Cruz” polls, and his news stories have been picked up by The Huffington Post and CBS News.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe dig into and create conversation over an email received about the cost of psychedelics, the facets of capitalism and about feeling isolated after a psychedelic experience.
3 Key Points:
Capitalism in psychedelics is a complex topic and includes factors such as the schooling system, the medical system, monopoly, trade, and other facets that go into the cost of psychedelics.
There are other forms of therapy that don’t have to involve psychedelics or lots of money.
Feeling isolated after an experience is sometimes our own blockage, by refusing to create community because a person hasn’t had the same experience as us. Psychedelics aren’t always needed for a psychedelic experience.
Email concern: Some psychedelic experiences seem segregated by a price bracket. Ketamine Therapy – believed it would help with their depression, but ended up spending a thousand dollars every two weeks.
Joe – curious that ketamine lozenges may be a cheaper option that could help. Kyle – although the drug itself may be cheap, you’re not just paying for the lozenges, you’re paying for a therapist or a psychiatrist. Kyle – in America, healing is a privilege. We work hard to pay for health insurance, or even if we are insured through work or family, it gets hard to pay for because of the premiums.
“I would rather pay for taking care of myself, than going out and partying with friends.”
Healing may have to be a choice sadly, you may have to ask yourself “do I want this or do I need this?” Joe – One treatment of ketamine is beneficial for a short-term intervention in an urgent state
One session of ketamine therapy helps the user understand the situation clearer and can reduce the thoughts of suicide Kyle – “some of my greatest healing experiences were done through my own work, with myself or with friends”
“How do you feel about the resurgence of spirituality and psychedelics and it’s capitalism?” Joe – Going from the states to Peru to do ayahuasca to reach spiritualism isn’t the only means of spirituality. There are so many other options than capitalist outlets to find spiritual development. Kyle – “I want to offer a lot of help, and do free workshops, but need money to survive.” Joe – Jokingly “You’re three months behind on your rent Terrence!”
A person doesn’t need hundreds of trips to be complete and happy, Aldous Huxley says you need three to four strong trips throughout your life.
“How do we protect the planet, and how do we maintain freedom?”
To talk about Capitalism and psychedelics, we are assuming that something needs to mediate the trade or exchange for therapy. Let’s continue to educate ourselves so that we don’t blame capitalism on the fact that therapy has a cost. It’s a hard conversation to have, it’s a complex topic. Joe – pro-socialized medicine
$30,000 for a first responder to take an overdose death away
$20-$30 for a Narcan
Let’s prevent and heal more. Capitalism does incentivize doctors and healers. Kyle – “how can we use these as tools and not toys?”
Medicalization of psychedelics may have a potential tie to capitalism
The difference between doing it legally for an extremely high price, versus paying the market price for a gram of mushrooms (illegally) and doing the work (therapy) on your own. Joe – Monopoly=capitalism Kyle – the Education system
Student loan debt can be a half a million dollars to be a doctor or therapist
That debt plays an effect on how much those doctors or therapists charge
“How do you deal with isolationism that certain psychedelic experiences bring forward?” Kyle – “this has been a huge issue in my life, this resonates with me. After having my near-death experience, I didn’t know to talk to people, how to function in the world. A near-death experience is one of the most psychedelic things. To slowly slip away and ‘die’, and come back to this place and not feel like this is where I belong, how do I exist here? It can lead to isolation. It can be extremely heavy.”
“We’re all experiencing this reality through our own lens, so we have to meet people where they are.”
The reason these experiences can make us feel lonely is that of the lack of community. Kyle believes in not just constantly going into these experiences, but more about the integration of the experiences. Joe – Tim Leary says “Find the others”. But there are a lot of psychedelic people out there who don’t take psychedelics that can be a part of your ‘community’. Kyle – it makes sense to feel like you need to connect with someone who has done psychedelics in order for them to understand, but we can connect with other people who may not have had psychedelic experiences.
The psychedelic experience isn’t the only way. We can also experience spiritualism and healing without psychedelics, too. Kyle – Experience in Jamaica, the Rastas talking about home and family, “if the oil splashes up and burns me, my family isn’t here to help me, but you’re here to help me, and you can help me.”
The people around me are family, they don’t always need to have had experienced the same things as me in order to help me Joe – group strengthens self
Robert Anton Wilson’s habit – he would order magazine subscriptions and most subscriptions aligned with his interests, and the other half were of subscriptions way outside of his interests, so he wouldn’t develop a bias.
Check out this FREE online course, “Introduction to Psychedelics”
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Duli Wilkins, aka the “Beantown Ghetto Shaman” about his work and future plans. In this conversation, Kyle talks to Duli about his work with sacred plant medicines, how he got involved in this type of work, and also explore the topic of people of color and diversity in the psychedelic world.
Show Notes
About Duli Wilkins
He’s from the Boston area born and raised.
He gives credit to his parents for getting him into what he’s into right now.
His dad used to play jazz music and met a bunch of famous musicians.
He learned that sound and frequency can be used as a tool for healing.
He lived between two warring projects.
A lot of his friends got into the gang life.
He got heavily into Tai Chi and Chi Kung.
He became a multi-dimensional healer
He had a friend who gave him a mushroom and that’s when the magic begins.
How did everything begin for Duli?
His empathic abilities heightened more when he used cannabis.
He started getting deeper into the teachings of Rastafarians.
In the black community, you didn’t see a lot of people using psychedelics.
Using a mushroom was very new to him.
Duli’s experience with mushrooms?
At first he just felt some tingling and checked on his friend looking at the painting.
He started to see things happen before they were happening.
He was seeing the fabric of reality.
He started having out of body experience and heard drumming from the heavens.
“What was it like for you to be involved in this work when the people around you aren’t?”
Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
A lot of people report seeing ancestors that have passed away.
There’s a resistance to psychedelics in the black community because of the history of drugs.
It was easy for the government to shut down everyone but their own children.
We have to be patient and time will bring things to the surface.
Discussion about the pharmaceutical system.
It’s great when you have a broken bone, etc.
The pharmaceutical establishment is a business and it runs like a business.
When we deal with ancestral memory or epigenetics the medical industry can’t touch it.
Safety in a teaching plant ceremony is key.
Discussion about the dark night of the soul.
Work in the shadow is important if you want to become whole.
We’re all walking around with trauma.
He’s had a lot of past life experiences, even one where his son died very young.
It takes a lot of courage to try psychedelics and you have to have a good setting.
“Do you see a lot of spiritual bypassing?”
Yes, people try to hide behind things.
Some people hide behind the psychedelics.
Psychedelics and teaching plants are tools, how are you using the tools?
When we deal with wealthy people, maybe it’s the lack of struggle to obtain psychedelics.
There’s much more to us and as time goes by we’re going to have disclosure.
Duli talks about some experiences with extraterrestrials during psychedelic trips.
We’re going through cycles and making the same mistakes every time.
Last words?
Find him on Facebook under @abdukwilkins
Find him on YouTube under The Beantown Ghetto Shaman
Sign up for our free online course
Episode Quotes
Something inside me said, I should take the mushroom and that was the gateway to shamanism.
Things are changing, more people across the globe are becoming aware of the benefits of teaching plants.
We have to have a re-education and awareness around teaching plants.
About Duli Wilkins, a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O Shaman
Abdul K. Wilkins a.k.a Duli Tha Beantown G.H.E.T.T.O (Gifted. Hearts. Equal. Towards. Total. Oneness) Shaman is a Boston Native…He grew up in the Inner City of Roxbury where he overcame an environment of gang street violence, neighborhood drug abuse, and police brutality! Duli was influenced at a young age by both of his parents in the interest of spirituality, mysticism, natural healing etc.
While attending College at Northeastern University he had a very mystical experience with psilocybin mushrooms and has been using mushrooms and other psychedelics as a tool for healing and conscious awareness ever since! He is a father of 2 and does massage therapy and natural healings in his community!
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle and Joe provide a basic introduction to the field of Transpersonal Psychology and a brief overview of Stanislav Grof’s theories and work, including the Basic Perinatal Matrices.
What is Transpersonal Psychology?
The following excerpt is taken from Kyle’s undergraduate capstone project paper, “The Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences.”
The word transpersonalcan be defined as “beyond one’s self or ego.” The catalyst for the re-emergence of this field was fueled by heady days of the 1960’s which included social change, self-exploration, and a radical shift in consciousness.
Transpersonal psychiatry, therefore, is psychiatry that seeks to foster development, correct developmental arrests, and heal traumas at all levels of development, including transpersonal levels. It extends the standard biopsychosocial model of psychiatry to a biopsychosocial-spiritual one in which the later stages of human development are concerned with development beyond, or transcendent of, the individual….Transpersonal psychiatry and psychology address that universal aspect of human consciousness that is transpersonal experience and do not propound the belief of any one religion. (Scotton, 1996, p. 4-5)
Ultimately, transpersonal psychology allows the ability to view different cultural perspectives about reality. This can be achieved by observing and understanding various cultural beliefs as being a valid representation of that specific culture’s known reality (Scotton, 1996).
Transpersonal psychiatry allows not only that other vantage points (other societies) construct equally valid realities, but also that reality can be constructed in more positive directions with adequate techniques and personal development. (Scotton, 1996, p. 6)
The word transpersonal was first coined and used by William James in a lecture in 1905 (Chinen, 1996). During the mid-1960s a group of humanistic psychologists got together on behalf of Anthony Sutich, a pioneer in the field of transpersonal psychology, and the founding editor of the Journal of Humanistic Psychology. The meetings were held at Sutich’s home in California and consisted of topics that were of concern and dealt with issues that were known as transhumanistic, meaning beyond humanistic psychology (Chinen, 1996). Abraham Maslow was one of the main guiding participants for these meetings, and also a pioneer at the time for his theory of peak experiences. Peak experiences dealt with experiences that an individual might have that brings a sense of clarity or awakening to the person’s life. Stanislav Grof suggested the use of the term transpersonal at one of the meetings with Sutich, Maslow and the Austrian psychiatrist, Victor Frankl, for the newly emerging field of psychology soon to be known as the fourth force, or transpersonal psychology (Chinen, 1996). The meetings at Sutich’s house finally led to the announcement of the new field of transpersonal psychology in 1968, which separated itself from the humanistic approach of psychology (Chinen, 1996). The purpose of this new branch of psychology was to explore non-ordinary states of consciousness and spirituality.
Sutich is held accountable for the following original mission statement that is in the first issue of the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology:
The Journal of Transpersonal Psychology is concerned with the publication of theoretical and applied research, original contributions, empirical papers, articles and studies in meta-needs, ultimate values, unitive consciousness, peak experience, ecstasy, mystical experience, B-values, essence, bliss, awe, wonder, self-actualization, ultimate meaning, transcendence of the self, spirit, sacralization of everyday life, oneness, cosmic awareness, cosmic play, individual and species wide synergy, maximal interpersonal encounter, transcendental phenomena; maximal sensory awareness, responsiveness and expression; and related concepts, experiences and activities. As a statement of purpose, this formulation is to be understood as subject to optional individual or group interpretations, either wholly or in part, with regard to the acceptance of its content as essentially naturalistic, theistic, supernaturalistic, or any other designated classification. (Chinen, 1996, p. 10-11)
Basically, there are three points to this mission statement. The first is to have a focus on concerning issues that deal with experiences that are traditionally classified as mystical or religious. Second, there must be emphasizes on the use of empirical and scientific studies to help understand said experiences. And third, they seek to hold and suspend any beliefs regarding whether said experiences or phenomena are to be classified or dismissed as supernatural or not (Chinen, 1996).
References:
Chinen, A. B. (1996). The emergence of transpersonal psychiatry. In B. W. Scotton, A. B. Chinen, & J. R. Battista (Eds.), Textbook of transpersonal psychiatry and psychology (pp. 9-18). New York, NY, US: Basic Books.
Scotton, Bruce. (1996). Introduction and definition of transpersonal psychiatry. Scotton, Bruce W., & Chinen, Allen B., & Battista, John R. (Eds.), Textbook of transpersonal psychiatry and psychology(pp. 3-18). New York, NY: Basic Books.
Links and Resources
Books Mentioned (These links are Amazon Affiliate links. Psychedelics Today receives a small commission at no charge to you)
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Matt Pallamary, and have a discussion with him about his writing, research, and ayahuasca experiences. He also shares his concerns about self-proclaimed gurus and some issues that have been emerging because of the popularity of ayahuasca.
3 Key Points:
Science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
There are pros and cons to ayahuasca shamanism in Peru.
The more in touch with the natural world you are the more balanced you are.
Show Notes
Matt Pallamary was part of the early psychedelics podcast scene.
Matt grew up in Dorchester near Boston, and he began early experiences with sniffing glue, weed, and getting acid from a chemist from M.I.T..
He has almost 20 years experience with ayahuasca.
Too many people have a couple of ayahuasca experiences and claim to be a guru.
Famed science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a mentor of Matt Pallamary.
Everything is energy—the whole universe exists between our eyes.
Matt labels shamans as the first storytellers, the first musicians, the first performers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and first performers.
Being in touch with the natural world makes a person more balanced.
The boundaries between your conscious and subconscious are blurred, overlapping your visions, dreams, and waking life.
When going through an ayahuasca experience, you have to be in a safe place where you can be vulnerable and around people you can trust.
For ayahuasca experiences, be sure to get references from people that have successfully worked with a group.
Author, Editor, and Shamanic Explorer Matthew J. Pallamary is an award winning writer, musician, and sound healer who has been studying shamanism all of his life. He incorporates shamanic practices into his daily life as well as into his writing and teaching. He has over a dozen books in printthat cover several genres, many of which have been translated into foreign languages.
Matt has spent extended time in the jungles, mountains, and deserts of North, Central, and South America pursuing his studies of shamanism and ancient cultures. Through his research into both the written word and the ancient beliefs of shamanism, he has uncovered the heart of what a story really is and integrated it into core dramatic concepts that also have their basis in shamanism.
Download In this 88th episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Mike Brancatelli of the Mikeadelic podcast. After returning from a three-month Amazonian ayahuasca sojourn, Mikeadelic himself shares information about this extraordinary experience, how he has gotten involved in psychedelics and his journey.
Show Notes:
● Mike Brancatelli spent his three-month trip in Peru at the Temple of the Way of Lights with their residency program in the heart of the Amazon jungle during an ayahuasca retreat.
● Mike was previously doing stand-up comedy in New York City with his friend Dave Smith called “Part of the Problem.”
● Mikeadelic the podcast began in the spring of 2016.
● Drinking ayahuasca will produce an effect on you, especially when coupled with ceremony and healing songs.
● During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
● He feels passionate about ending the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex.
● You can remain filled with passion and compassion without being emotionally attached. Sit with your feelings without letting them control how you respond.
● The information overload of media drowns your spirit.
● A morning routine with meditation is helpful to get centered and focused for the rest of the day.
● The Netflix TV series “Wild Wild Country” is a true story about a controversial cult leader claiming to enlighten people.
● “Enlightenment Now” is a book about the enlightenment philosophy “science, reason and humanism”. It is a contemporary take on that philosophy – you could call Pinker’s take a Modern Enlightenment philosophy. Steven Pinker wrote the book. Joe Moore, suggests it and found out about it from the Bill Gates’s.
● “The Internet of Money” Volume 1 and Volume 2 by Andreas M. Antonopoulos is another interesting read suggested by Joe Moore.
● Before ayahuasca use, listen to your heart to understand why you want to try it.
3 Key Points:
1. During an intense healing ceremony, a song cut to the core of the collection of pain that Mike was experiencing, and it felt like he was being unclogged of this negative energy, and it came out in the form of a very vocal purge.
2. It is incredibly brave to be willing to confront your stress and be willing to stare into your soul and slay your demons.
3. Remain passionate, compassionate, and acknowledge the problems in the world, but don’t stay emotionally attached to them. Become mindful of how you respond.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Daniel McQueen, Co-Founder of Medicinal Mindfulness and the DMT research project called DMTx. They discuss the extended-state DMT research project that they are involved in, the personal DMT trip experiences that Daniel McQueen has had, and what this research can make possible.
3 Key Points:
Daniel McQueen does private retreats, groups, conscious cannabis circles, healing meditations, and community breath work.
Goals for called Extended State DMT research include healing clinical concerns and advanced creative problem-solving with experts that need assistance.
We are four-dimensional beings in an 11-dimensional reality.
Daniel’s story of a very intense and meaningful DMT experience
Depth Psychology is trying to bring things from the subconscious to the surface.
Humanist Psychology is based on what it means to be human and the human experience.
William James is one of the fathers of Transpersonal Psychology, which integrates the spiritual and transcendent aspects of the human experience with psychology.
Psychedelics Today has partnered with Daniel McQueen of Medicinal Mindfulness on a project called DMTx (Extended-State DMT research) which involves using an IV pump to keep a steady stream of DMT in the bloodstream for a long period of time.
Daniel McQueen does private retreats, groups, conscious cannabis circles, healing meditations, and community breath work.
DMT is “the most profound hallucinogen that we have access to.” It doesn’t lose its effect the more you use it.
Once you hit the peak of the DMT trip during Extended State DMT you stabilize.
People have been overwhelmed when smoking DMT because the dosages may have been too high with a lack of a sense of meaning—an overdose of stimulation.
A peak experience that Daniel had was slug beings showing the soul of his unborn child.
After his second child was born, Daniel had another trip where an authoritative being searched for the soul of his child that had now been born.
The risk is low but bad events not handled properly could involve: a cardiac arrest, situation even though there are no known cases and psychological crisis and mania.
Daniel is working towards a DMT travel exhibition with four experiences included.
Spiritual traditions will be integrated into the research to acknowledge the spiritual possibilities.
Goals for the project include healing clinical concerns and advanced creative problem-solving with experts that need assistance.
Daniel believes psychedelic medicines give us the potential to see things beyond three dimensions.
What happens when our culture is literate to the psychedelic space?
There is a moral case to make to prevent people using altered states to create more advanced dangerous weapons.
We are four-dimensional beings in an 11-dimensional reality.
Why can’t we use a more scientific approach to move towards spiritual awakenings?
Daniel discovered meditation and spiritual practices at twelve and has been interested in exploring inner states ever since. He apprenticed under a number of shamanic teachers and has been a practicing intentional journeyer for over 16 years. For Daniel, working in the professional field of Cannabis and Psychedelics isn’t a career interest, but represents a core identity and life calling. Finding a place to honor such a life calling within a world that has until recently prohibited it has been an interesting challenge.
After graduating from the University of Arkansas with a degree in Communication, Daniel traveled down a many forked and unmarked road through the wild terrain of political activism, corporate accountability research and campaign finance reform for many years in Washington, DC. Disillusioned by the city, he moved to Florida and opened a small meditation center to explore grassroots community organizing before moving to Boulder, CO and returning to school at Naropa University.
Daniel earned a Masters Degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology from Naropa and received advanced training in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy through a year internship with the MAPS Boulder MDMA for PTSD Study. It was his experience with MAPS that inspired Daniel to explore alternative visions in cannabis and psychedelic activism and entrepreneurship.
Daniel bridges transpersonal paradigms with the grounded clinical and organizational skills necessary to begin addressing the significant ecological and mental health crises facing our society today. Although Daniel no longer practices as a clinical psychotherapist, he supports his clients as a teacher, coach, ally and event facilitator, providing individual and group transformational experiences and deeply held intentional conversations. In his practice, Daniel quickly realized that the most important intervention he could provide to his clients, who were isolated and longed for meaningful contact with others, was a sense of community. Medicinal Mindfulness is, in a very real way, a cultural intervention that provides a safe and transformational community container for healing and awakening… a program based on skill development and not dogma. Since 2012, Daniel has been teaching a psychedelic harm prevention and intentional psychedelic use course called Psychedelic Sitters School. Since the legalization of recreational cannabis in Colorado, he has been facilitating group journey experiences called Conscious Cannabis Events and guiding individual cannabis journeys.
In addition to his work with Medicinal Mindfulness, Daniel has a successful spirituality and life coaching practice with his wife, Alison, through their company, Aspenroots Counseling LLC. Highly skilled in identifying and cultivating giftedness in young people and supporting significant life transitions, Daniel is inspired to support passionate and talented individuals striving to live into their calling. A primary focus of his practice involves assessing and addressing the benefits and difficulties related to psychedelic and cannabis use and misuse.
Daniel co-founded the Naropa Alliance for Psychedelic Studies and helped organize the first annual Psychedelic Symposium at Naropa University in 2012.
About Medicinal Mindfulness
Medicinal Mindfulness® LLC and Medicinal Mindfulness Events LLC
Medicinal Mindfulness is a grassroots consciousness community/membership organization and education program that supports individuals and groups who choose to use cannabis and psychedelics with intention. Founded by Daniel McQueen, MA, and his wife, Alison McQueen, MA, our community has come together to provide an enjoyable, safe, open and affirming space to share transformational cannabis and breathwork experiences.
We use clinically informed, mindfulness-based approaches within a somatically oriented, transpersonal and community paradigm to create an holistic (mind, body, spirit) process that initiates powerful transformations in healing and personal development.
Services are available for individuals, couples, families and groups.
Given the common misunderstandings and concerns that accompany the field of psychedelics and cannabis harm prevention and advocacy, we are committed to making ourselves available to public service and safety professionals to answer questions regarding psychedelic and cannabis harm reduction programs.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Kyle Buller and Joe Moore talk to Zach Leary host of the MAPS podcast and It’s All Happening. We have an incredible time talking to Zach and his worldview, experiences, opinions and much more. It was a very fun time recording with Zach and we hope it can happen again in the near future.
Show Notes
Joe and Kyle discuss Zach’s connections with Ram Dass
Zach Leary calls himself a futurist and we discuss what a futurist is.
A natural way to continue the narrative of our physical evolution and our spiritual development.
Cyberspace is an invention as a result of our human condition.
The way and the reason we invented it is that we found a need to create another dimension.
Futurism and transhumanism and embracing the way technology is augmenting the human experience is a great place to be.
Do you see any major problems in psychedelia?
Overall, it’s a great time to be into psychedelics.
There’s so much research and data available to the end-user and the discussion is improving.
Many people are starting to be more open about their beneficial relationship with psychedelics.
It’s important to get people in the mainstream aware of their beneficial properties.
The Ayahuasca fad going on in the U.S. has many people calling themselves shamans, which raised a red flag to Zach.
It used to be that going to the medicine man was a common occurrence in any culture.
Mysticism didn’t go away, it just got turned into a more doctrinal practice.
The part of the church that bothers Zach is the authoritarian aspect, that there is only one god.
There’s an element of fanaticism when someone says there’s only one drug that’s worth taking.
April 19 is the 75th anniversary of the first intentional use of LSD (Bicycle Day).
We have to start re-thinking about what “natural” means.
The human imagination and what it creates is a by-product of nature.
There’s no stopping the technological march, the train has left the station.
A return to nature can include biodiverse rooftop gardens in New York.
It’s very hard to get off the grid.
What do we have that’s readily available and sustainable?
Mushrooms
LSD
Other synthetic compounds that don’t bother the rainforest, etc.
Zach is the host of both the “It’s All Happening with Zach Leary” podcast and “The MAPS Podcast.” They have helped to cement him as one of the most thought provoking podcasters in the cultural philosophy genre of podcasting. He’s also a blogger/writer, a futurist, spiritualist, a technology consultant and socio-cultural theorist.
In all of Zach’s work he blends his roles as a spiritual aspirant and a futurist into a unique identity all his own. His spiritual background has it’s roots in being a practitioner of bhakti yoga as taught through many of the vedantic systems of Northern India, in particular Neem Karoli Baba as taught by Ram Dass. Through the practice of bhakti yoga he has found keys that unlock doorways that allow the soul to experience it’s true nature of being eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. In addition to bhakti yoga, Zach is influenced by many different methods and traditions of consciousness exploration ranging from trans-humanism to buddhism and clinical psychology. Zach is also a frequent pundit on the political systems that are fueling todays economic and cultural structures. At the core of all of Zach’s work is the belief that we have been fused together by the collective practice of using technology to expand our species imagination with spirituality and mysticism to define the very nature of who we are.
Suppose you come to the end of your tether, can no longer cope, have a break-down, fall apart, go to pieces. To whom would you turn? Where would you go?
What alternatives do you have when you desperately need help, but have little, if any, say in the kind of help available?
When a person’s suffering becomes insupportable, to him or herself and to others, and yet persists, that person is in a state of distress. Once you find yourself in distress you come to realize that you are at the mercy of other people. Which of those people are you willing to be at their mercy, for better or worse? To whom are you willing to entrust your life? If you don’t happen to know anyone who comes to mind, then how will you go about finding someone you can trust? Do such persons exist?
Gnosis Retreat Center aspires to be such a place, by providing a safe place to be, when you are alone and afraid, confused, bereft, and not sure whom to turn to for help. Gnosis is a household that is populated by others like yourself, a refuge for those who are lost, afraid, bewildered, or simply seeking a fresh start, who may, if they choose, get over their ordeal and see it through, without jeopardy.
James Norwood, MA, is a doctoral student in the Clinical Psychology program at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, California. Norwood is presently working as a clinical intern, researching MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in concert with the Multi-Disciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, and is on the board of directors of Free Association Inc., a nonprofit organization that provides alternatives to treatment for people with altered experiences of reality in the Bay Area.
About Michelle Anne Hobart, MA
Michelle Anne Hobart,MA: is a practitioner of energy medicine and holistic health educator. She holds a BS in Biology, and an MA in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness. Currently, she is doing coursework in Integral Counseling Psychology at California Institute of Integral Studies. Michelle is an advocate for the Neurodiversity movement and a certified Spiritual Emergence Coach. She supports sensitive, empathic people whose gifts and experiences have been judged or oppressed and who are in the process of reclaiming and recovering their self-care, power, and personal truth. Michelle offers workshops, retreats, support groups, and one-on-one sessions.
What is breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork? Kyle and Joe talk about the components and mechanics of breathwork and share some personal experiences. Breathwork is a topic that is brought up often on Psychedelics Today, so here is a more in-depth discussion about what it is. The form of breathwork that Joe and Kyle are trained in is Transpersonal Breathwork. More about this practice below.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork is an applied, practice-linked philosophy that uses the method of Stanislav Grof’s Holotropic Breathwork as a modern shamanic practice for self-discovery through cathartic re-experience of events from a person’s biographic history and the process of birth, as well as the potential apprehension of archetypes and events in the cosmos.
The experiential aspect of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork uses a combination of group process, intense breathing, evocative music, body work, and expressive drawing.
The term “transpersonal” refers to those experiences where our sense of self-identity expands beyond our personal biography and ego boundaries and transcends the usual limitations of time and space. These experiences facilitate deeper understanding of ourselves, our relation to others and our place in the universe. They help us gain increased comfort in daily life and a spiritual intelligence that fosters calm and optimism amidst the difficulties of the world.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork draws on the work of William James, Carl Jung, Abraham Maslow, Stanislav Grof and others. Grof is a pioneering psychedelic researcher, investigator of exceptional human experiences and cofounder of the transpersonal psychology movement. Together with his wife Christina Grof, he developed Holotropic Breathwork, an inspiration of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork, Integrative Breathwork and other methods. In his book The Holotropic Mind, Grof describes Holotropic Breathwork as a seemingly simple process with “extraordinary potential for opening the way for exploring the entire spectrum of the inner world.”
5 Components of Breathwork
Intense Breathing – Deep circular breathing with a minimal pause in between the in and out breaths. There is no “right” technique, but to intensify and deepen one’s breathing.
Evocative Music– A music setlist is created to help drive the breathing session. The music is typically all instrumental with no distinguishable language. There are often times when music with foreign languages will be used because of the lack of context. The music setlist is around two to three hours long.
Focused Bodywork – Emotional energy can become stuck in the body. To help assist with stuck emotional or physical energy, bodywork is performed to help release the energy. Bodywork can also be in the form of support by offering a hand to hold.
Expressive Drawing – After the breathwork session, participants are asked to create a mandala or drawing. This helps to process the experience without language or words and can be very symbolic. This process helps to integrate the experience.
Group Process– We are social creatures. As Lenny Gibson states, “we are the descendants of successful tribes.” We need one another to survive in the world. The group helps to form a safe container for participants to dive deep into their psyche and being. The group holds the space for a healing process to occur.
Links & Notes
Dreamshadow: Holotropic Breathwork, Personal Development, and Transpersonal Education
Download Daniel McQueen of Medicinal Mindfulness joins us to talk about extended-state DMT research, also known as DMTx. Daniel has been presenting this idea at local events in the Colorado area to help raise awareness and money to help bring this research idea to life. To learn more about this project, upcoming events, or to donate to help fund the research check out DMTx.org
Here is a quick message from Daniel:
A few years ago we started a community gathering and speaker series called Psychedelic Shine, and it was through this project that I met Dr. Rick Strassman, Dr. Dennis McKenna, and Dr. Andrew Gallimore, to name a few. The process of creating psychedelic inspired programs, meeting innovative leaders in the field, and also the inner exploration this work requires, were all factors that initiated this journey into exploring Extended-State DMT research. It has been a wild and wonderful ride ever since, and we’re excited to step into the next stage of this work.
It is our intention to create a sustainable, multi-generation DMT research program that is both congruent with scientific inquiry, as well as with the creative and spiritual interests and values of the psychedelic community. We believe Extended-State DMT research is as much an expedition as it is a scientific experiment. We believe it is both deeply inspiring and practically feasible.
Daniel earned a Masters Degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology from Naropa and received advanced training in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy through a year internship with the MAPS Boulder MDMA for PTSD Study. It was his experience with MAPS that inspired Daniel to explore alternative visions in psychedelic activism and entrepreneurship.
Daniel bridges transpersonal paradigms with the grounded clinical and organizational skills necessary to begin addressing the significant ecological and mental health crises facing our society today. Although Daniel no longer practices as a clinical psychotherapist, he supports his clients as a teacher, coach, ally and event facilitator, providing individual and group transformational experiences and deeply held intentional conversations. In his practice, Daniel quickly realized that the most important intervention he could provide to his clients, who were isolated and longed for meaningful contact with others, was a sense of community. Medicinal Mindfulness is, in a very real way, a cultural intervention that provides a safe and transformational community container for healing and awakening… a program based on skill development and not dogma. Since 2012, Daniel has been teaching a psychedelic harm prevention and intentional psychedelic use course called Mindful Journeywork. Since the legalization of recreational cannabis in Colorado, he has been facilitating Conscious Cannabis Circles and individual cannabis journeys.
In addition to his work with Medicinal Mindfulness, Daniel has a successful spirituality and life coaching practice with his wife, Alison, through their company, Aspenroots Counseling LLC. Highly skilled in identifying and cultivating giftedness in young people and supporting significant life transitions, Daniel is inspired to support passionate and talented individuals striving to live into their calling. A primary focus of his practice involves assessing and addressing the benefits and difficulties related to psychedelic and cannabis use and misuse.
Daniel co-founded the Naropa Alliance for Psychedelic Studies and helped organize the first annual Psychedelic Symposium at Naropa University in 2012. He is currently working with Grounding Solutions, Inc. to develop a natural rescue medicinal for users of psychedelics and cannabis.
Our online course, ‘Navigating Psychedelics: Lessons on Self-Care & Integration” will keep you and your friends safer. Just say KNOW to drugs.
In this episode, Joe and Kyle discuss the difference contexts of psychedelic use:
Therapeutic
Recreational
Psychospiritual & Self-Discovery
Ceremonial & Shamanic
While these categories can be flexible and sometimes merge into one another, we thought that it would be important to give context to the variety of experiences. As MAPS has just received “Breakthrough Therapy” status on the MDMA-assisted psychotherapy research, this is an exciting time for research and therapeutic use of a powerful medicine. However, there may be some confusion about how the therapeutic approach is different from some of these other contexts and ways of using psychedelics. While we believe that all contexts are valid or legitimate and each carry their own risk/benefit, we thought that it would be helpful and fun to talk about our views about this subject.
How can we use our mind, intellect, or heart to diffuse or address the origin of our problems that arise from the same place?
Iboga, Ayahuasca, Kambo, and 5-MeO-DMT have wandered from their origins and into our western culture during an ominous time for humanity – a time that is naturally calling for healing and metamorphosis. At Oka Center, it is our privilege to work with and integrate these medicines with their traditional uses into our lives and the lives of all who come here. Each guest brings benefits to all who are involved.
For us, the traditional use of entheogens is just as important (or more) as the recently developed ideology and protocols created by western doctors, scholars, and laypeople. Westerners have only recently started using these medicines significantly within the last 50 – 60 years. Traditional indigenous use is centuries old – perhaps older according to many – and comprises the vast majority of experience with these powerful medicines, not to mention their original discovery. Generations of use has naturally given rise to refined protocols, beautifully disarming spirituality, sublime music, and just the right amount of humor. We include standardized western medical guidelines to ensure safety which is imperative, but not intrusive. Particularly with ibogaine, it is of utmost importance to have medical prescreening, monitoring, and supervision before, during, and after the treatment.
We are grateful for the research and empirical data that has helped to assess the risks and benefits of Ibogaine and other entheogens, particularly from Ken Alper and the late Howard Lotsof. At the same time, the new trend in attempting to fit entheogens into the framework of the western medical schema is questionable.
Since there are enough anecdotal reports that suggest so many applications and benefits of these entheogens, it makes sense to try and “legitimize” them in order to make them available in our healthcare system. However, we need an honest review of our healthcare industry – especially within the mental health sector – to gauge how genuine a reference point our system is for validating or practicing any medicine or modality, especially for plant-based medicine which is off limits for patenting.
The enormous profit margins of the healthcare industry would be significantly reduced if lifelong prescription medications were no longer considered final solutions to common mental “disorders.” You need only do minimal research on the ruthless financial methods and ethics of the healthcare industry to come to some disturbing conclusions. In our experience, many people coming to Oka Center have reached a point at which their ongoing use of prescribed medications has provided no change or only damaged their situation further.
For those of you who want to get off hard drugs and have heard about the medicinal value of plant medicine like ibogaine, you might not see the relevance of its traditional use. Perhaps you have come to ibogaine because of its ability to alleviate opiate withdrawal or interrupt addiction, or your friend of a friend got off dope with ibogaine and it was miraculous.
While we do not force our ceremonially based protocol on anyone, almost everyone – including those coming to get off hard drugs – respond very positively to it. In the end, it is embraced and appreciated as an important element of the healing process.
Ruptured spirituality is common to everyone that comes to Oka Center – drug use or not: We are broken, tired, angry, bored, confused, stressed, frustrated, and oftentimes infinitely sad. Reflection, prayer, song, and dance may seem frivolous at first, but these things are much needed in our lives and are important in respecting the medicine and for laying the groundwork for your experience.
In many ways, our western culture has separated itself from nature. As individuals, we have lost an innate intelligence or awareness because of it. What might have been awe and wonder has been replaced with sarcasm and cynicism. Although our advancements in technology and industry have paved the way for practical efficiency and comfort, the downside is that it is getting increasingly easier to forget where we come from and where we are going. It is normal for us to feel alienated and unhappy in such a competitive, indifferent society built with concrete, computer chips, and suffocating ethical standards and expectations. Hard drug use is an appropriate response as any attempt to get through each day with a smile on your face.
Whether it is drugs, alcohol, gambling, depression, anxiety, exhaustion, or whatever else we have adopted or suffered from in the attempt to get by, somewhere along the line we realize discomfort, harm, and despair. Naturally, this is when we look for a way out of these negative cycles.
Beyond a certain point, to truly view and examine ourselves deeply and objectively in waking life can be almost impossible. The attempt at doing so most often ends up being more of the same self-deception. How can we use our mind, intellect, or heart to diffuse or address the origin of our problems that arise from the same place?
This is one of the main reasons why we advocate for the use of entheogens. The incessant internal rapport we have with ourselves never allows us to look beneath the masks we have created which project the flawless versions of ourselves we present to the world. Entheogens have a way of blasting our masquerade into pieces. With any luck, we are left with a beautiful nightmare that shines a light on our humanness: our fallibility, our fragility, our innate goodness, and our capacity for softness and empathy toward others because at the very root, we all share the same capacity for madness and beauty.
About the Author
David Stetson‘s passion has been Bwiti since his Iboga initiation in 2007. David is extensively well-traveled in Gabon, Africa where he is known as Okukwe. During his time in Gabon he learned Bwiti traditions, music, and ceremonial practices and is proficient on both the moungongo (musical bow) and ngombi (harp) instruments. David views Bwiti and Ibogaine as a lifeway that champions communion with others while also empowering the individual. His approach to working and healing with others starts with the awareness of alienation and isolation as common and appropriate responses to our western culture, and is based in non-judgement. Learn more about Oka Center here and check out David’s podcast interview with us here.
Download Peter is a psychedelic philosopher focusing on panpsychism, psychedelics, Whitehead, Nietzsche and some other heavy weights. We discuss Peter’s psychedelic philosophy and influences from psychedelic liberty cap mushrooms found in a field in England, his influence on the famous comic author Warren Ellis, his essay Neo-Nihilism, transhumanism and much more. We really look forward to having Peter on the show again in the future!
‘The terms morality, logic, religion, art, have each of them been claimed as exhausting the whole meaning of importance. Each of them denotes a subordinate species. But the genus stretches beyond any finite group of species.’ (MT)
‘Philosophy is an attempt to express the infinity of the universe in terms of the limitations of language.’ (Autobiog.)
‘The doctrines which best repay critical examination are those which for the longest period have remained unquestioned.’ (MT)
‘[I]n the development of intelligence there is a great principle which is often forgotten. In order to acquire learning, we must first shake ourselves free of it. We must grasp the topic in the rough, before we smooth it out and shape it.’ (MT)
Peter Sjöstedt-H is an Anglo-Scandinavian philosopher who specialises in the thought of Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Whitehead within the fields of Philosophy of Mind and Metaphysics – especially with regard to panpsychism and altered states of sentience. Peter received a Bachelor’s degree in Philosophy and a Master’s degree in Continental Philosophy from the University of Warwick, where he was awarded a first-class distinction for his dissertation on Kant and Schelling in relation to ‘intellectual intuition’. He subsequently became a Philosophy Lecturer in London for six years but is now engaged in his PhD at Exeter University where he also teaches philosophy modules and writing skills. Peter is the author of Noumenautics and an inspiration behind the new inhuman philosopher Marvel Superhero, Karnak.
In the words of futurist, philosopher and pop star Alexander Bard: ‘One of our favourite contemporary philosophers, Peter Sjöstedt-H…think a psychedelic Nietzsche’.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe interviews the co-host of the show, Kyle Buller. As hosts of the show, we thought that it would be fun to dig a little deeper into our own personal narratives to give our listeners an idea of who we are. This episode offers the opportunity for Kyle to share his story about how he became interested in psychedelics and other non-ordinary states of consciousness.
From Kyle of Psychedelics Today
I became interested in non-ordinary states of consciousness at an young age. One event that sparked my interest in these topics stems from suffering a near-death experience when I was teenager. This experience changed the trajectory of my life and also left me with asking myself many questions about life and death.
Tune into this episode as Joe asks me about my history with non-ordinary states of consciousness, the development of a psychedelic course at Burlington College, my interest in Holotropic Breathwork, and much more.
Thanks for listening!
Keeping Tabs
A microdose of all things psychedelic news, all in one place. Get bi-weekly updates, education, and events straight to your inbox.
We won’t share your information. Unsubscribe at any time.