During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your host Kyle Buller interviews Robin Kurland-West, a licensed marriage and family therapist based out of California. Kyle and Robin chat about challenges and other questions in regard to providing psychedelic integration services. Psychedelic integration is a new territory, and there are plenty of questions to still answer and cover.
She offers integration services through her therapy practice.
Robin had questions about how to create an introduction practice and how to follow up.
She was licensed in 2010 and graduated from the California Institute of Integral Studies in 2006.
About a year ago she decided to do a karma cleanse and began to talk to a friend about psychedelics.
Her friend sent her a podcast that spoke to her.
She was doing some shadow work and dealing with her addiction experiences.
She said a prayer over the psilocybin and was open to what it would show her.
A spirit appeared and the forest started sending her messages.
It was a female spirit and used two trees to illustrate the inside of her brain.
It taught her that her mind was holding onto negative beliefs.
She taught her that she needed to let go, that it was “all so absurd.”
What has been the difference between experimenting in college vs. doing the work as an adult?
In college, it was seen as a party drug.
She had a hard time having conversations with people.
She doesn’t see it as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor.
She now views it as a medicine that heals parts that have been cut off.
Having had a history of addiction, some people are afraid psychedelics might be addictive.
Psychedelics are non-addictive because other drugs are about escaping, and psychedelics are about being fully present.
What is integration work for you and how do you approach it?
This is new territory for her after having her own experience.
She joined a network called the psychedelic support network.
Because it’s not yet legal, it’s a bit of a struggle.
She offers pre and post ritual services.
People meet with her and do a pretty thorough assessment.
They set the intention for the experience.
Afterward they look at what some of the messages were and how to incorporate it into their daily lives.
Do you help with dosage?
She focuses more on intention setting because she’s still new at this.
She refers people to resources to help with other things.
Is there a therapeutic approach you use with people?
She uses expressive arts therapy to tap into the unconscious and subconscious.
She always uses family systems, there’s usually a root to behavior.
She uses CBT and DBT.
She uses journaling and narrative therapy.
It’s an opportunity to rewrite your story – a new perspective to an old story.
She uses mandala work and drawing.
She has them stand up and move around.
Utilizing movement to integrate is huge.
After having her profound experience with psychedelics, she finds it to be a warm blanket she can reach for to remind you that things are different now.
What type of challenges have you had providing integration services to people?
She wants to know how soon she should see a client after they start on this journey.
How many times should she see a client after, and how many times?
It could be more individual.
She started to do psychotherapy to go deep and heal.
It’s possible to put your medical license at risk by providing certain services.
She can’t sit with people when they have their experience and has to be clear that it’s a decision that they’re making.
She has to detach herself from a lot of it.
She likes the idea of immediacy in following up with clients.
She sees a client 3-4 times beforehand to make sure they’re healthy enough and set intention.
Afterward she wants to see them soon so they can hold onto the gold they discovered in the journey.
How do you choose the right psychedelic experience for a person?
The idea of doing a diagnosis to find out what will work is tricky.
Throw it back on the person to see what they’re looking for.
It’s not a scary experience, but you want to make sure you’re with someone who’s trained.
There’s a couple that wants to come in and do integration therapy together.
She wants to meet with them individually and together beforehand.
People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.
How do you approach people who think integration specialists can get them drugs or be a guide during experiences?
She says it isn’t about her telling them to use illicit drugs and she doesn’t do drugs with them or hook them up.
The difference between integration therapy and a guide:
A guide is someone you trust who sits with you.
An integration therapist is just pre and post where she’s not involved in the drug.
Have you had any clients reach out trying to integrate a really difficult experience?
Not yet, but she’s looking forward to it.
She would ask questions about what they saw and felt.
She would bring in the arts to map it out and they can look at it together.
You can have a psychedelic experience without having psychedelics.
Is there anything you’re looking forward to with clients?
In traditional therapy right now, she’s coming up against blockage in some of her clients.
She sees a lot of people being stuck, and that’s the hardest part.
She’s excited to see the light turn back on in people’s eyes and see them be healed.
She wants to see people be present with themselves and each other so they can have a fuller life.
How do you approach therapy and coaching?
She just does the psychotherapy, asking questions.
She appeals to a clients inner resources.
Do you do any online work?
She only does in-person work, every once in a while she does a phone session.
She works holistically, so people don’t just focus on the mind, also the body and the spirit.
Do you get people reaching out from all over the place?
Yes, because her name is on the psychedelic support list.
She filled out an application and had some correspondence with the organization.
What are some of your favorite podcasts and resources?
The Psychedelic Salon Podcast
Episode Quotes
I don’t see psychedelics as a party drug anymore, it’s something that you honor, a medicine.
I like to see my clients soon after their experience so they can hold onto the gold they discovered on their journey.
People are in therapy to discover themselves and they might find something different than they’ve been looking for.
Robin Kurland-West received her license in 2010. Prior to becoming licensed she has worked in non profit agencies and inpatient recovery centers as clinical director, supervisor and lead therapist. Through this journey she has focused her expertise on trauma and addictions. Currently Robin has a private practice in the Sacramento area and works with individuals, families, couples and groups. Her passion to explore consciousness and the healing potential of psychedelics has been prominent through out and is committed to making a difference with those suffering from PTSD and addictions through the use of plant medicines and psychedelic integration therapy.
During this episode of Psychedelics Today, your hosts Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Dr. Monnica Williams from the University of Connecticut and Dr. Will Siu a psychiatrist in private practice based in Manhattan, and a therapist on MAPS’s MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD clinical trials at the University of Connecticut. They join us to discuss race-based trauma, people of color in psychedelics, and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.
Show Notes
About Dr. Will Siu
He’s a psychiatrist and therapist on the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials with the supervision of Dr. Monnica Williams.
Based in NYC and has a private practice.
Does some work in emergency psychiatry at a local hospital.
About Dr. Monnica Williams
Associate professor at the University of Connecticut.
Does graduate teaching and multicultural psychology and research in the health center.
Currently doing a study on MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD.
What is race-based trauma?
There had been some studies previously.
When people become traumatized by experiences of racism, oppression, marginalization based on their perceived identity.
Often because of ongoing experiences, like microaggressions
Eventually, people have so many of these experiences that they start to have symptoms of PTSD.
People get so distressed and afraid that they act in a way that might harm them.
You have to think about trauma in a non-single event way.
Exploring the topic epigenetics.
Trauma has been passed down from generation to generation.
Layer epigenetics on top of what’s currently going on and trauma is understandable.
How has recruiting been going for the MDMA study?
It’s challenging, they’re not drawing from the same population the other sites are.
They’re creating a culturally safe, welcoming environment for people of color.
There is fear and misinformation that requires them to do a lot of education on the front end.
Research abuses haven’t stopped, they’re still continuing today.
Psychedelic drugs are almost exclusively used by white people.
Are there any big problems you’re trying to tackle now in prepping the study?
Traditionally there has been no compensation for study participants, but it’s needed for this study.
Another layer is paying via direct deposit vs. cash and getting the university on board.
How do you send someone back into the trauma you’re trying to heal.
How do you support people in the study?
Support them as much as possible during the study.
Continue to follow-up with people after the treatment is over.
There is a lack of people of color in the therapy field, especially MAPS.
Often people of color don’t have a good experience with white therapists.
Why do you think there aren’t very many people of color in psychedelics?
People of color haven’t had the same advantages to become therapists.
It’s not safe to talk about substances when your license is on the line.
Culturally, psychedelics haven’t played as big of a role with people of color.
What does an ideal training model look like for you?
Watching the videos of people getting well was a big game changer.
The training needs a fuller understanding of what people from other ethnic and cultural groups need.
Monica is altering the training to be more relatable.
Talk about enrollment.
They have people at all different stages right now.
They have about 18 people total who have gone through the stages.
They still have to follow the guidelines of an indexed trauma to be accepted.
How big is your team right now?
Three therapist pair teams.
A few other people who assist in various ways.
Several people are doing double-duty.
How can the psychedelic community be more inclusive of people of color?
Make some close friends who are not white.
Do you have any fantasy projects you’d like to see play out?
Start a master’s program with a specialty track in minority mental health and psychedelic therapy.
All scholarships for people of color.
Any advice you’d give to a young person or professional?
There’s a lot of work to be done and we need enthusiastic minds.
Change won’t happen overnight or be easy, but it’s worth it.
Be involved in the community
Episode Quotes
The psychedelic community is a very, very white community – most people of color haven’t had an experience with psychedelics.
Ultimately, psychedelics and psychotherapy will be an accepted, licensed form of treatment.
About Monnica Williams
Monnica Williams, Ph.D. is a board-certified, licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapies. She is an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences at the University of Connecticut, and Director of the Laboratory for Culture and Mental Health Disparities. She is also the Clinical Director of the Behavioral Wellness Clinic, LLC in Mansfield, Connecticut, and she has founded clinics in Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania.
Will Siu, MD, DPhil
I grew up in southern California, where I completed college at UC Irvine and medical school at UCLA. Midway through medical school, I pursued research interests at the National Institutes of Health in Washington, DC and ultimately completed a doctoral degree at the University of Oxford. After finishing medical school I moved to Boston to complete my psychiatry residency at the Massachusetts General and McLean Hospitals, after which I continued to work for two years while faculty at Harvard Medical School. I moved to New York City in 2017 where in addition to having a private practice, I am a therapist on clinical trials using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD.
Psychedelic science and research has been getting a lot of mainstream media attention over the years and for good reason. The preliminary research suggests that psychedelics may be extremely beneficial in helping to treat mental health disorders and as tools for studying consciousness. As this research begins to hit mainstream channels, some people are left wondering, “How can I find a psychedelic guide or sitter?”
We, at Psychedelics Today, have been receiving a lot of requests from people asking for instructions on how to obtain illegal drugs or for us to connect them with people offering underground services. While we understand that many people are suffering and seeking psychedelic treatments, sometimes out of desperation for healing, it is not easy to provide advice. Unfortunately, because of the legal system and the current laws in The United States, we are unable to help you on either of these fronts.
With that stated, we can provide some general advice for those looking for alternatives or legal options. Please take the time to conduct your own research as well.
First Things First
It is important to question what your intentions are and ask yourself why you may be seeking psychedelics either as therapy or as an experience.
Are you seeking a therapeutic experience because of a mental health issue?
Are you seeking a psychedelic experience for spiritual or religious reasons?
Are you just curious to know what the experience may feel like or what it is all about?
Are you looking for a recreational experience or to have fun?
Whatever your reasons or intentions are, it is important to continue to be self-reflective and question whether or not this is the right path to pursue. Also, be sure to spend time reflecting on the risk/benefit ratio.
While psychedelics are generally considered safe both psychologically and physiologically, there are some important considerations to take into account. These medicines and substances affect everyone differently based on the set and setting as well as a person’s own biology.
If you are seeking a psychedelic experience because you are suffering from a mental health issue or looking for psychological healing, it is important to evaluate whether or not it is the best option. The research is promising, but it also requires a lot of work, support, and follow-up treatment. Psychedelics are not always cure-alls or silver bullets.
If you are seeking this treatment out of desperation because you have read how positive or healing the experience can be, it is important to note that this change does not always happen right away. It may be important to find a psychedelic integration therapist to work with after or before. Also, ask yourself, “Have I tried other options?”
There are some powerful and effective somatic-based therapies that can be extremely cathartic and healing, such as breathwork, Somatic Experiencing, and others. A list of alternatives and somatic-based therapies can be found below in the “Experiential Therapies/Approaches” section. These therapies may be worth checking out if you have not looked into these therapies before and may also be a great first step to working with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
Exploring Legal Psychedelic Therapies and Other Alternatives
Experiential Therapies/Approaches
One thing that comes to mind is why are you looking for a guide? Is it to heal trauma or some sort of mental health issue? Are you looking for a spiritual experience or a way to reconnect with yourself? Depending on your intention, there may be other techniques and tools. It may not be as “sexy” as partaking in psychedelic work, but it is important to ask yourself, “What is my intention?”
There are some really powerful therapies and techniques that could potentially be helpful depending on the intention. In regard to therapy or addressing mental health issues, starting with a form of experiential therapy could be beneficial. You could look into some of these somatic approaches that could be helpful for dealing with trauma and other mental health issues before trying to seek underground work or travel outside of the country to work with psychedelic medicines.
Finding/working with a shamanic practitioner may be helpful for some as well. The Foundation for Shamanic Studies (founded by Michael Harner) is a good starting point for finding a practitioner to work with.
Legal Therapy Options
Ketamine-Assisted Therapy
Ketamine is an interesting substance and has recently been used to help treat depression. There are ketamine clinics throughout the United States that provide treatment for depression and other mental health issues. If you are interested in learning more about ketamine-assisted therapy, check out a few of our episodes covering the topic.
Cannabis-Assisted Psychotherapy
While many people do not think of cannabis as a psychedelic, some are exploring the therapeutic potential of cannabis in a legal and therapeutic setting. There are not many clinics operating with this protocol, so it may be hard to find, but as cannabis becomes legalized in more states for medicinal use and recreational use, this may become more accessible. Here are three resources that we know of so far for cannabis-assisted psychotherapy.
Did you know that when cannabis is used intentionally and skillfully, it is psychedelic and mimics other psychedelic medicines? Our participants commonly report experiences quite similar to MDMA, Psilocybin, Ayahuasca and even DMT. Cannabis is also safe, and legal to use in Colorado in this way. As the first organization to facilitate legal psychedelic cannabis experiences in Colorado, beginning in 2014, Medicinal Mindfulness has an incredible track record of keeping our clients safe and creating profound, life changing psychedelic experiences.
Conscious Cannabis Experiences are perfect for people who are curious about psychedelics but don’t know where to start. They’re also great for experienced practitioners seeking to deepen their psychedelic practice. As trauma informed practitioners, we also work with individuals who seek deep, transformational healing. As guides, we work with creative explorers of consciousness and complex problem-solvers, pushing the edges of what is possible.
Innate Path: Ketamine and Cannabis-Assisted Psychotherapy
Innate Path, located in Colorado, is exploring the potential of cannabis-assisted psychotherapy and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. As mentioned on their site, “Cannabis can be a powerful catalyzer of therapeutic process.”
Innate Path combines somatic processing with ketamine or cannabis assisted work, which is a unique bottom-up approach to psychedelic-assisted therapy.
Sara Ouimette Psychotherapy, located in Oakland, CA, offers psychotherapy, psychedelic integration services, and cannabis-assisted psychotherapy. As stated on Sara’s page:
When used in a particular way, cannabis can actually amplify or exacerbate your internal experience. You can become more aware of tightness or soreness in your body. Emotions are heightened; senses are more acute. You may have access to thoughts, fears, and feelings that are normally out of reach. You may even enter a trance-like state and “journey.” In these ways, cannabis can help deepen your therapy process.
One way to find a psychedelic sitter/guide is to participate in clinical research. Check out the following for more information.
Clinicaltrials.gov: This is a database of clinical studies from around the country and around the world. You can use this database to search active clinical studies on psychedelics and to search for recruitment opportunities. Just perform a simple search for “psychedelic” or anything else that you may be looking for in the search box. You can filter your search option and only search studies that are currently open for “recruitment.”
This option is not always available to everyone because of the cost of travel, accommodations and other expenses. While we understand attending a retreat or center in another country is not accessible for most, it is one of the few legal options for participating in this work. We advise doing extensive research including interviewing the retreat staff/owner and past guests before committing to international travel.
One site that we recommend for finding retreats or reviews is the Psychedelic Experience. While this site is still growing, this may be a great starting point for research. Another popular site is AyaAdvisors.
Psilocybin Retreats
Traveling to another country to participate in this work is obviously not ideal, but the option exists. Mushrooms are legal in The Netherlands, Jamaica, and Brazil. Mexico has protection for traditional medicines, and mushrooms do fall in this category.
Ayahuasca Retreats
Ayahuasca has an interesting legal status in the USA, where many groups are offering sessions in various contexts and settings from religious ceremonies (Christian or shamanic), YMCA gyms, rural retreat centers, churches, etc. Ayahuasca is legal in some countries like Peru and Ecuador. Ecuador provides licenses for shamans/facilitators while no other countries currently do.
Ibogaine Retreats
These retreats exist in Canada, Mexico and other countries around the world including where the plant is from and traditionally used – Gabon. Some facilities are very clinical and others are very traditional. Please know that Iboga and Ibogaine have some serious dangers that need to be carefully considered. There are also environmental concerns around iboga. Please don’t over-use this plant and if you go forward with it, please try to give back to the local environmental movements in Gabon.
5-MeO-DMT Retreats
We currently don’t advise people go on these retreats. The pressure on toad populations is severe and our culture’s desire for the toad venom may push this toad towards an endangered status. After interviewing toad scientists (herpetologists) we have concluded that it is not ethical to be participating in this “market”. If you feel very compelled, the more ethical path (at this point in history) is to work with synthetic molecules.
Holotropic Breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork
Breathwork is a term used to describe breathing techniques and systems that foster self-discovery, healing, and sometimes deeply emotional and physical cathartic releases. If you have been following Psychedelics Today, you have most likely heard us talk about this technique on the show. Breathwork is actually a legal and safe way to access a non-ordinary state of consciousness. There are various schools of breathwork, but the Breathwork technique that we are most familiar with is in the lineage of Holotropic Breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork. Holotropic Breathwork was created by Stanislav Grof, who was a pioneer in psychedelic research in the early years, and his wife Christina Grof. Breathwork can sometimes be on par with some psychedelic-like experiences.
It may not sound as sexy as psychedelic work, but do not be fooled, it can foster powerful shifts in consciousness. We have both had tremendously powerful healing experiences using Holotropic Breathwork, which plays a huge part in why we talk about it so regularly.
Conscious Breathwork and Conscious Cannabis | Medicinal Mindfulness
Medicinal Mindfulness is a Colorado-based organization that provides services in psychedelic integration, breathwork, and conscious cannabis work. Medicinal Mindfulness is a consciousness community/membership organization and education program that supports individuals and groups who choose to use cannabis and psychedelics with intention and skill. Through our Community Breathwork and Conscious Cannabis Events, we facilitate legal, accessible, safe and sacred psychedelic journey experiences that integrate the four primary paradigms of intentional medicine use: Creative, Scientific, Psychological & Spiritual. Our approach is Transpersonally aligned and somatically oriented.
You can learn more about the work at Medicinal Mindfulness on this episode of Psychedelics Today with the founder, Daniel McQueen.
Conclusion and Legal Notice
Finding an underground therapist to work with is extremely difficult because unfortunately, many of these substances are still illegal. This is why we often refer people to check out techniques like Holotropic Breathwork or to find a legal way to pursue this type of work. Remember, many underground guides are putting their professional careers and lives on the line providing psychedelic work.
We advise you to learn as much as you can before breaking any law as the consequences can be severe. If there are any questions that you think are serious enough to cause harm to yourself or others, please contact a legal professional before acting.
Psychedelics Today, LLC and its affiliates can not be held liable for any action you take. We are not doctors and therefore, cannot provide any medical advice. Please be responsible and seek professional attention when necessary.
Best of luck out there, and expect us to share as much as possible when the laws change.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Joe Moore interviews Dr. Benjamin Malcolm, professor of pharmacy at the Western University School of Pharmacy. The discussion revolves around ibogaine, alkaloids, and addiction therapy solutions.
3 Key Points:
Opioid addiction and death related to overdose is a public health epidemic in the United States
Addiction may be rooted in loneliness, boredom, lack of recreation, trauma, pain or disconnection
Ibogaine is able to reduce physical symptoms and cravings of opioid withdrawal and usually provides the user with insight into why they developed an addiction.
Show Notes
Dr. Benjamin Malcolm discusses psychedelic alkaloids that have the potential to treat addictions.
When conducting research with human subjects, an Institutional Review Board (IRB) should review the project proposal to ensure the study is ethical
There are risks involved in taking in ibogaine that can be used to treat addiction with deaths due to cardiac arrhythmias reported
In the United States, opioid overdose claims over 100 lives every day
Ibogaine is illicit in the US and unregulated in other parts of the world
Psychedelics that bind to 5HT2B receptors could cause a thickening of the heart valve if taken on a chronic basis, psychedelics taken intermittently are not likely to have a significant effect
Many newer synthetic psychedelics have not been studied in animals or humans, leading to the potential for unknown adverse reactions
Internet surveys about psychedelics usually have a selection bias due to those enthusiastic about the subject to fill out the survey while those that had negative experience may not fill it out or even access websites or forums where surveys are distributed
Mescaline is a classic psychedelic (found in San Pedro or Peyote cactus) with much anecdotal evidence of benefit that has not been the featured in any well designed human research
If psychedelics become approved drugs for medical use then managing transitions between traditional pharmaceutical modalities and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapies will be required and may be an important area of pharmacist involvement in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapies
Professionally, I teach psychopharmacology and clinical psychiatric pharmacy, practice as a clinical specialist in psychiatric pharmacy, and perform research on psychoactive drugs.
On a more personal note, I’m a lover of nature, exercise, music, being, and consciousness. I’m passionate about cognitive liberty, self-realization, and psychedelic drugs.
I envision a society in which access to psychedelic drugs in a variety of safe and supported settings is available for purposes of psychospiritual well-being, personal development, ceremonial sacraments, and treatment of mental illness.
In this episode of Psychedelics Today, host Kyle Buller interviews Alyssa Gursky, a Masters student at Naropa University with a focus in mental health counseling and transpersonal art therapy. Their discussion dives into the intersection between art therapy, transpersonal art, and psychedelics. Ketamine, symbols, and meaning are also areas of this interview.
3 Key Points:
Alyssa Gursky has been working with the MDMA research In Boulder, Colorado and now in Fort Collins for the last three years as a night attendant.
Creating art is a gift from our unconscious, to be able to see what is happening within ourselves.
There is art in therapy and there is art as therapy.
Show Notes
Alyssa Gursky has been involved with the MDMA research In Boulder, Colorado and now in Fort Collins for the last three years as a night attendant.
Making art is one of the most intimate ways to be with yourself.
Alyssa is approaching her 20th ketamine session. Each session typically is two hours long.
So much of art therapy is getting out of your own way.
Alejandro Jodorowsky practices psychotherapy in France, and doesn’t charge, and wrote a book called Psychomagic.
To be a licensed professional councilor LPC in Colorado touch isn’t allowed.
Communication and consent is import to psychedelic therapy.
MDMA psychotherapy can initiate healing on a deep level.
Race-based trauma psychotherapy is underway.
Art can make people feel deeply about experiences outside of their own.
Alyssa Gursky is a master’s level candidate in Transpersonal Art Therapy. She currently is subcontracted by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) on their study using MDMA for treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on their Boulder and Fort Collins sites. She’s incredibly passionate about the healing potential of the creative process and the body’s innate wisdom. She loves science fiction, anything by Alejandro Jodorowsky, and petting all of the dogs.
A few important notes. This is an episode of an individual experimenting with powerful drugs to see if he can get any sort of relief from autism. In this case, it appears to have been successful. That said, this came with a substantial amount of risks, and people need to be aware. Please read the below bullets so you understand.
Autism is not what is treated. The thing being treated would be a symptom like social anxiety.
“The field of autism science includes a long and shameful history of quack treatments and parents taking desperate and harmful measures to “fix” their children. Autism is a spectrum of congenital and neurocognitive variants, and there are no published research data in support of any compound that can influence its course.” Alicia Danforth, PhD
Please do not administer these drugs to children with autism.
There are only two researchers investigating where MDMA and autism meet – Alicia Danforth PhD and Dr. Charlie Grob. A scientific paper will likely be available on this in the next few months. Expect to see more here.
These drugs have not been shown to cure or treat autism, but in some cases, just like with neuro-typical individuals, some have seen meaningful changes.
Even if changes are noticed the person is still autistic no matter how many high doses of psychedelics they take.
Obtaining pure drugs is very difficult if not impossible in black markets.
Verifying purity will require the resources of mass spectrometry from organizations offering these services like Energy Control or Ecstasy Data
Providing unsafe, dirty or compromised drugs to people can cause serious harm or death.
If you are planning to use MDMA to alleviate some suffering on your own, please wait or don’t.
Do substantial research and have skilled people available to help.
Thanks to Alicia Danforth for helping us understand the nuance’s in this area.
..autism is a genetically determined cognitive variant. It’s pervasive, and it affects the whole person, not just the brain. No chemical compound has been shown to treat, cure, or alter the course of autism. However, for some people, substances like MDMA can help them manage symptoms such as anxiety, social anxiety, and trauma effects. – Alicia Danforth, Ph.D
Introduction
Joe Moore and Kyle Buller interview Jon and Dre of the Voices in the Dark podcast out of England. The discussion addresses treating symptoms of autism with MDMA and LSD, what types of doses were used, and how to in part do it safely. Note there are always risks with any kind of drug. Learn the basics over at our Navigating Psychedelics course.
3 Key Points:
A lot of autism is sensory overload. As far as emotions are concerned, “we “see potentially too many things in other people’s faces.” – Dre
A good range for MDMA dosages is between 100mg and not going over 200mg.
125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.
Show Notes
Jon’s first psychedelic experience shifted his academic career path and helped him to deal with depression.
Dre first tried MDMA as a first step and it unlocked emotional empathy.
Sensory overload is a lot of autism according to Dre.
Jon’s experiences with MDMA made him feel like himself without the fear and the worry.
MDMA and LSD at the same time didn’t feel as emotional when combined to Jon.
125 micrograms per drop of liquid LSD, and not going above 250 micrograms is recommended.
Democratising psychedelic therapy is where Joe would like to see the industry go.
Jon is against the fetishizing of any particular concept of belief system in its totality.
Jon is excited that he is starting to see more types of research on LSD/MDMA and autism.
Dre’s experiences have shifted his autism by feeling that he has a foot in both worlds to know how living without it feels in his mind.
At Voices in the Dark, we bring you powerful, mind- and soul-expanding conversations about real life psychology, philosophy, psychedelics, spirituality, social dynamics and much more.
We’re a podcast, a blog, and a community of likeminded individuals who want to become the best versions of themselves. We’re dedicated to never stop Learning How To Human.
Our mission is to entertain, provoke, inform, and make you question everything you think you know.
DRE
A disturbingly quick study in most fields, Dre’s autism made learning people more of a challenge. The works of Robert Greene shone a light on the otherwise deeply confusing world of other people’s psyches, transforming the world around him into something which finally made sense.
JON
After spending far too many years in educational institutions, Jon got a PhD in History but is now finally learning something about the real world and the people in it. He always felt that science and scholarship needed more dick jokes and is on a mission to redress that balance. He writes, talks, travels, sings, and has a problematic relationship with cake and coffee.
Download Joe Moore interviews Britta Love, a passionate writer and sex educator based in New York City. Britta shares about the overlap of sexuality and psychedelics, her field of consciousness and embodiment studies, and dealing with the psychedelic patriarchy. She shares her desires to diversity the field and make supporters he safe and supported.
Quotes
We have to be OK with the fact that as we get confronted by the internalized racism and patriarchy and privilege that our psychedelic sub-culture carries, that its going
to be a little messy for a while, and we are all going to have to feel uncomfortable at times.
Giving up your privilege is the ultimate psychedelic trip. There is something about that surrender that’s really deep.
If you are someone who does what we call holding space or facilitates in someway, to actively hand that power back as often as possible, when you realize someone is trying to give it to you it, is a really powerful meditation.”
Show Notes
● Britta Love talks about sexual abuse stories that were discussed on a
panel on psychedelic patriarchy she participated in.
● In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
● Author Robert Anton Wilson’s idea of “reality tunnels” is that we all have our B.S. (Belief System). What if we could flip between belief systems and be more
flexible and be more literate with reality and open-minded.
● Britta speaks about a healer who was sexually abusive to a woman she knows.
● A woman was raped by a male nurse and she was strong-armed to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
● The psychedelic community needs more diversity, more women and people of color to balance out the equality of voices.
● We need healthy models of sexuality to express sexual energy in a positive and constructive manner to get rid of sexual aggression and power dynamics.
● We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans. We can become our own healers when we are in safe environments.
● Psychedelic therapy can be demystified and taught, and doesn’t have to remain esoteric with a hierarchy of privilege structures.
● Forming collectives of up to 100 people with different skills to form a safe, supportive, and collective village of awareness and wisdom.
● How do we create containers that are encouraging of and supportive of the deep reflection that is required to undo racism and patriarchy and systems of oppression require?
3 Key Points:
1. In Britta’s anti-racist work, whenever she starts to feel uncomfortable, she recognizes that that discomfort is not as bad as what it must feel like to get oppressed by systemic racism.
2. We are too willing to hand over our power to healers and shamans—we can become our own healers when we are in safe spaces.
3. Know your value and contribution within a group. People feel better when they are a giver.
Britta Love is a writer, somatic sex educator and multi-dimensional healer based in Brooklyn, NY. A graduate of the London School of Economics and Goddard College, she wrote her thesis in Consciousness Studies on the healing and spiritual potential of altered states, specifically those induced by conscious sexual practice and the ritual use of psychoactive plant medicines. She writes for Alternet, Psymposia and Reality Sandwich, gives talks and facilitates workshops in NYC, and blogs on sex, drugs and consciousness
Matt Kay, Co-Founder of the East Coast Float Spa, joins Kyle on this episode of Psychedelics Today. This is another experiential episode where Kyle gets to float and report on his experience. Kyle and Matt also talk about the benefits of floating, the history, and how Matt got involved in the float business. We hope you enjoy this episode! Let us know what you think below in the comment section.
Mission of East Coast Float Spa
Nothing too complicated: At East Coast Float Spa, our mission is to help as many people as possible by providing Floatation Therapy in a modern, comfortable setting, and being welcoming to everyone! We maintain a strong commitment to our passion for health through our core values and having the distinction of being an all organic and natural Spa; which includes buying local and sustainable products whenever possible. This includes all of our soaps, shampoos, health products, cleaning supplies, food, drink, and anything else we can think of!
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Naropa graduate student, Alyssa Gursky, joins us on Psychedelics Today to talk about her experience with ketamine therapy, breathwork, transpersonal art therapy, and being a night attended for the MAPS MDMA-assisted psychotherapy studies in Boulder and Fort Collins, Colorado. Alyssa has been already played multiple roles in the psychedelic community, such as volunteering for MAPS, Psymposia, and Psychedelics Today. Her passion and energy for this work are motivating. We are really excited to see how her career in the psychedelic field unfolds as an inspiring transpersonal art and psychedelic therapist.
Alyssa Gursky is a master’s level candidate in Transpersonal Art Therapy. She currently is subcontracted by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) on their study using MDMA for treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) on their Boulder and Fort Collins sites. She’s incredibly passionate about the healing potential of the creative process and the body’s innate wisdom. She loves science fiction, anything by Alejandro Jodorowsky, and petting all of the dogs.
What is breathwork and Transpersonal Breathwork? Kyle and Joe talk about the components and mechanics of breathwork and share some personal experiences. Breathwork is a topic that is brought up often on Psychedelics Today, so here is a more in-depth discussion about what it is. The form of breathwork that Joe and Kyle are trained in is Transpersonal Breathwork. More about this practice below.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork is an applied, practice-linked philosophy that uses the method of Stanislav Grof’s Holotropic Breathwork as a modern shamanic practice for self-discovery through cathartic re-experience of events from a person’s biographic history and the process of birth, as well as the potential apprehension of archetypes and events in the cosmos.
The experiential aspect of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork uses a combination of group process, intense breathing, evocative music, body work, and expressive drawing.
The term “transpersonal” refers to those experiences where our sense of self-identity expands beyond our personal biography and ego boundaries and transcends the usual limitations of time and space. These experiences facilitate deeper understanding of ourselves, our relation to others and our place in the universe. They help us gain increased comfort in daily life and a spiritual intelligence that fosters calm and optimism amidst the difficulties of the world.
Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork draws on the work of William James, Carl Jung, Abraham Maslow, Stanislav Grof and others. Grof is a pioneering psychedelic researcher, investigator of exceptional human experiences and cofounder of the transpersonal psychology movement. Together with his wife Christina Grof, he developed Holotropic Breathwork, an inspiration of Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork, Integrative Breathwork and other methods. In his book The Holotropic Mind, Grof describes Holotropic Breathwork as a seemingly simple process with “extraordinary potential for opening the way for exploring the entire spectrum of the inner world.”
5 Components of Breathwork
Intense Breathing – Deep circular breathing with a minimal pause in between the in and out breaths. There is no “right” technique, but to intensify and deepen one’s breathing.
Evocative Music– A music setlist is created to help drive the breathing session. The music is typically all instrumental with no distinguishable language. There are often times when music with foreign languages will be used because of the lack of context. The music setlist is around two to three hours long.
Focused Bodywork – Emotional energy can become stuck in the body. To help assist with stuck emotional or physical energy, bodywork is performed to help release the energy. Bodywork can also be in the form of support by offering a hand to hold.
Expressive Drawing – After the breathwork session, participants are asked to create a mandala or drawing. This helps to process the experience without language or words and can be very symbolic. This process helps to integrate the experience.
Group Process– We are social creatures. As Lenny Gibson states, “we are the descendants of successful tribes.” We need one another to survive in the world. The group helps to form a safe container for participants to dive deep into their psyche and being. The group holds the space for a healing process to occur.
Links & Notes
Dreamshadow: Holotropic Breathwork, Personal Development, and Transpersonal Education
The use of heroin and abuse of opiate pain-relievers has reached an all-time high in the USA. The addictive nature of these drugs has left us scrambling for treatment options that can offer us freedom from this epidemic.
The fact is, traditional treatments don’t work for everyone, and many are starting to look for more effective alternatives. Treatment that results in long-lasting sobriety is different for each individual.
When a traditional method isn’t working, it may be time to consider something new. Ibogaine is one such treatment, and the rise in opiate addiction has led to an increased interest in this alternative treatment for opiate and heroin addiction.
Iboga and Ibogaine
Ibogaine is just one of the many alkaloids found in the Tabernanthe Iboga shrub. Raw Iboga is one of the most powerful psychedelic plants in the world and has been used for its profound spiritual effect on those who experience it.
This is why, for centuries, the Bwiti religion of Africa have been using Iboga as a way to induce introspection and a higher self-awareness.
In the early 1900s Ibogaine was extracted from the Iboga root and used by athletes, in very small doses, as a stimulant. At the time, Ibogaine was used because of the way that it excites certain pathways within the brain.
But in the 1960s, all of that changed.
Ibogaine as an Addiction Treatment
Howard Lotsof was suffering from an addiction to heroin when he tried Ibogaine for the first time in 1962. He was 19 years old and experimenting with any substance he could find.
Hours after trying the Ibogaine, Lotsof had an epiphany—he had not taken opiates for almost a day, yet, he had no withdrawal symptoms.
He waited, but the withdrawals never came.
Ibogaine had allowed Lotsof to break his heroin addiction with just one dose. He knew immediately that these implications could have a massive impact on others who were struggling with heroin and opiate addiction.
But, given the importance of this conclusion, Lotsof realized he needed to perform further testing. So, he rounded up a few of his opiate and heroin-addicted friends, gave them the Ibogaine, and the results were stunning—none of his friends went into withdrawal.
This was the beginning of Ibogaine treatment for addiction. As Lotsof introduced more and more studies on the effects of Ibogaine on withdrawal, it became a real point of interest for scientists who were looking for more effective ways to help addicts beat their dependence.
Unfortunately, this also came at a time when the US government began making psychoactive substances illegal. Ibogaine was classified as a Schedule 1 drug, putting it in the same class as the drugs that it was meant to treat. It also made it very difficult for scientists to study its positive effects on addiction.
Lotsof was forced to study Ibogaine and treat addicts in Europe, where he founded the Global Ibogaine Therapy Alliance. He worked hard to try and change the laws in the USA and other countries, but, unfortunately, lacked the resources he considered necessary to do so.
Ibogaine has a unique effect on the chemical levels in the brain.
When the addict begins using opiates, these drugs release massive quantities of chemicals that plug into the brain’s neurotransmitters.
The brain becomes addicted to these high levels of pleasure-inducing chemicals, changing the way that the brain would normally function.
Because of these addictive adaptations, when the supply of drugs is cut off, the brain goes into a frenzy. Depression, seizures, and other symptoms are often the result. This is what we call withdrawal.
Ibogaine has the ability to work on the chemical receptors in the brain. It repairs neurons in the brain that have been damaged due to opioid addiction. It also restores balance to the brain so that naturally produced chemicals can work properly to control feelings of pleasure and happiness.
This gives addicts a fresh start, and the ability to start focusing on changing their lifestyle, instead of just fighting withdrawals.
But Ibogaine doesn’t just treat the withdrawal symptoms, it also affects the brain on a psychological level.
Psychological Effects of Ibogaine
In many addicts, though not all, Ibogaine induces a dreamlike state.
Those who have experienced this state often say that Ibogaine made them face their fears, past traumas, and helped them conquer many of the underlying reasons that caused their addiction in the first place.
This kind of psychological clarity and introspection is unique to the effects of Ibogaine and psychedelic medicines.
This is also why Ibogaine has been recommended, by some, as a treatment for trauma and other mental conditions—such as depression, anxiety, and PTSD.
The psychedelic effects of Ibogaine have the ability to treat these mental issues in ways that therapy never could. Some describe it as taking a look at themselves from the outside in, finally being able to address the core of their problems and address the root cause.
Is Ibogaine Right for You?
Just like any other treatment method, Ibogaine requires close supervision from medical professionals. Because of the way Ibogaine reacts in the body, it can be dangerous. This is why it is recommended that Ibogaine treatment should be done in a medical setting.
Addiction is a deeply personal disease and one that requires a different type of treatment for every individual. Ibogaine is not for everyone. It’s important to look into all of your options and talk to your physician.
Sobriety is possible. Every individual deserves a happy and successful life. Take the time to study all of the treatment options available and make the right decision for you or your loved one.
About the Author
Aeden Smith-Ahearn was a massive heroin addict for 7 years. After trying every traditional treatment method available, he put his last hop into Ibogaine treatment. Now, he has been clean and sober for 5 years while also helping thousands of addicts find freedom through Ibogaine. He is currently the treatment coordinator for Experience Ibogaine treatment centers and works hard every day to help people find success and happiness in life.
Dr. Scott Shannon joins Psychedelics Today to share his experience and insights about ketamine therapy used in conjunction with integrative psychiatry. Dr. Shannon has been working with ketamine for the past year within his psychiatry practice and has found tremendous benefit in using this medicine for particular disorders. Dr. Shannon is also part of the Fort Collins MAPS MDMA-assisted psychotherapy Phase 3 study, which is just starting up.
Show Topics/Notes
What is ketamine?
Mechanisms of action of ketamine.
What is the ketamine experience like?
Three types of administration methods – IV, IM, and oral
MDMA-assisted psychotherapy and the MAPS Phase 3 trials
Transpersonal experiences fostering change and transformation
Critiques of traditional psychiatry.
Patient with 40 years of depression became a new person no longer suffering from depression.
Electro Convulsive Therapy was almost an option, thankfully avoided.
The importance of music with ketamine therapy and other psychedelics
Scott Shannon: Cannabidiol in the Treatment of Anxiety
I decided to become a psychiatrist in high school after my first psychology class. The amazing capacity of the human mind simply astounded me. I wanted to help people by using this power of the mind. What intrigued me the most then (and now) is that our human potential remains only partially understood. I am still on that journey of discovery about our true potential. To this end, I resonate with the theme of empowerment: my greatest day is the day that you have the skills to thrive without my services.
I feel blessed with all that I have been given in my life. I have been married for almost thirty years to Suze with two wonderful children, Noah and Sarah. I love to travel the world teaching or just exploring. My nature is relentlessly creative and curious. I love to cycle, snowboard, golf, run, climb, backpack and listen to music. Seamus, my big black Lab, may accidentally show up to work with me occasionally just because he likes people so much. My spiritual life is very important to me and I have meditated for over thirty years. Helping people makes my heart sing.
As a child and adolescent psychiatrist, my current focus involves supporting young people to find wholeness and recover their full health in body, mind and spirit. Although I use prescription medication at times, I much prefer to employ natural methods like nutrition, supplements, mind-body skills, acupuncture and a shift in awareness to support the healing process. This approach represents the new field of Integrative Psychiatry. Most importantly, I employ a holistic philosophy to understand people and their struggles. The single most important thing that I have learned in my professional life is to listen well: deeply and intuitively. After this listening, much of my work involves teaching you what I have heard. I founded Wholeness Center to work in collaboration with a team of gifted healers to help you better understand your story.
College: University of Arizona
Medical School: University of Arizona
Internship: Columbia Program, Cooperstown, NY
Psychiatric Residency: Columbia Program, Cooperstown, NY
Child/Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship: University of New Mexico
If you liked this episode you may also like these episodes
In this episode, Joe and Kyle discuss the difference contexts of psychedelic use:
Therapeutic
Recreational
Psychospiritual & Self-Discovery
Ceremonial & Shamanic
While these categories can be flexible and sometimes merge into one another, we thought that it would be important to give context to the variety of experiences. As MAPS has just received “Breakthrough Therapy” status on the MDMA-assisted psychotherapy research, this is an exciting time for research and therapeutic use of a powerful medicine. However, there may be some confusion about how the therapeutic approach is different from some of these other contexts and ways of using psychedelics. While we believe that all contexts are valid or legitimate and each carry their own risk/benefit, we thought that it would be helpful and fun to talk about our views about this subject.
This week we talk with Ashley Booth, co-founder of InnerSpace Integration and founder of the Aware Project: Rethinking Psychedelics. Ashley shares with us how she went from being an oceanographer to starting a psychedelic community in the Los Angeles area and also pursuing psychedelic research. We talk about how the formation and history of both the Aware Project and InnerSpace Integration, and the importance of building a psychedelic community.
We also talk about Ashley’s background in somatic practices such as Hakomi and how Hakomi can be used for integration as well as in the psychedelic space. Body psychotherapy seems to be a tool of the future for many psychotherapists who are interested in psychedelics and psychedelic research as normal talk therapy does not always address some of the underlying issues that are stored within the body.
Ashley Booth, M.S. is a scientist, philosopher, and psychedelic ambassador. After years of working in environmental science, she experienced a radical paradigm shift through the use of psychedelics which ignited a passion for the awakening of human consciousness. Ashley uses her scientific background to break through the “war-on-drugs” rhetoric and have an intelligent and scientifically-based conversation about the safety and use of psychedelic substances. Ashley is the founder of the Aware Project: Rethinking Psychedelics (awareproject.org), which hosts educational and community-building events in Los Angeles and San Diego, California. She is also a co-founder of the InnerSpace Integration (innerspaceintegration.com), a psychedelic integration support service and harm reduction organization in Southern California. For a year and a half, she worked as a psycho-spiritual coach at Crossroads Treatment Center, supporting people through ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT experiences. She is a certified Kundalini yoga teacher and is currently training in a somatic psychotherapy approach known as the Hakomi Method. www.AshleyBooth.net
Download In this episode, Kyle talks with Allison Pelissier, of The Traveling Light Machine, about the Lucia N°03 Hypnagogic Light Machine. It turns out it is very powerful and induces powerful visions in some.
During Kyle’s recent trip to Vermont, he met a fellow fan of the podcast, Grant, at the recent Dreamshadow Holotropic Breathwork retreat. While meeting Grant felt like a synchronicity, it led Kyle to experience the Lucia N°03 with Allison. Kyle shares his experience with the hypnagogic light machine in this episode while Allison discusses the background and development of this this fascinating piece of technology. Be sure to continue below to learn more about the Lucia N°03, get show notes/links, and to find out more about Allison’s work.
Consider leaving us a comment to let us know what you think about the episode.
About The Lucia N°03 Hypnagogic Light Machine
The Lucia N°03 was developed in Austria by clinical psychologist Dr. EngelbertWinkler and medical neurologist Dr. Dirk Proeckl.
It is important to note that the Lucia N°03 is not a medical device. Rather it is a therapeutic light meditation. That is, it helps light travelers achieve a state of effortless meditation. It is not in competition with, nor a replacement for pharmaceutical drugs, clinical therapy, or any other medical intervention. It is a journey into consciousness.
The Lucia N°03 gently entrains the brain, stimulates the pineal gland and opens up a beautiful space for visionary exploration.
The Lucia N°03 helps clear the mind and allow even beginning meditators to reach a space of peace quickly. It is not a replacement for a meditation practice but quite the opposite – it encourages people to meditate by realizing how powerful the practice can be and gives them the confidence (and roadmap) to get there on their own. As the Lucia is both a stimulation (through light), and a relaxation (through brain entrainment), it helps the individual learn to let go in stressful situations, rather than resist and make things even more difficult. The Lucia N°03 also uses a wide spectrum of light which has been reported to have a great impact for people with both seasonal affective disorder and other types of depression.
The Lucia light experience is different for each person, as it works with each person’s individual system and has a balancing effect. Everyone feels more clear and centered after an experience, while some people feel more energized or deeply relaxed.
Dedicated to assisting in the expansion of consciousness of humanity, Allison is a lightworker that is both a clairvoyant and ambassador for the Lucia N°03 light experience. Allison has a MA in International Education and Development and a BA in Political Economics. She also holds a 200 hr Yoga Teaching Certification, a Children’s Yoga Teaching Certification and has worked across the world in many different capacities as an academic teacher, textbook author, meditation and yoga teacher, project manager and developer and light ambassador.
The Lucia N°03 light experience peaked Allison’s interest after her first experience at Light Eye Mind Gallery in London, UK. She traveled deeply into her own mind and memories and emerged from the experience feeling like she had come back to herself in a way she would never have suspected could be possible. Her experience helped her shift from a state of depression and PTSD to an ability to sleep through the night and wake up with a sense of joy again.
Feeling a strong calling to work with the Lucia N°03, Allison purchased her own lamp and started touring around the US with Traveling Light Machine project, aiming to bring the experience to wherever the light was called. The most moving part of the experience for Allison is that as a light ambassador she holds space for people to have their own experiences. She strongly believes that we cannot help anyone, but rather hold space for them to see and love themselves.
Currently Allison travels around the US and the world with her partner in business and love, Zachary Noel, sharing the Lucia N°03 light experience.
As psychedelics and plant medicines continue to gain mainstream attention, more and more people are becoming interested in having their own experience. While many people travel outside their home country to experience ayahuasca legally in a retreat setting, many people are participating in ceremonies in the “underground” all over the world. Attending a festival, large or small, is also a very common place for people to experiment with psychedelic substances. This new wave of psychedelic use is almost like a new rites of passage for many. Two parts of any rites of passage is the preparation and integration of the experience. Sherree Malcolm Godasi can and does help.
We talk with Sherree Malcolm Godasi about her work with psychedelic preparation and integration. As she mentions on her site, Psychedelic Integration Coach:
Preparation for ceremony and ongoing, post-ceremony integration of the lessons shown by Ayahuasca are all about developing the physiological and psychological flexibility that would enable the drinker to surrender to her awesome, wise spirit. It is also about harnessing the time, effort and resources put into ceremony work to ensure that the healing is anchored and cultivated in the default life. The diligent preparation stage aims to cleanse the mind, body and energetic field and opens the drinker to receive, and is most beneficial when started a month in advance.
Following the ceremony, as the lessons from La Medicina – THE Medicine – will keep unfolding for weeks, months and even years later, a mindful integration stage of minimum 3 months is recommended. This intentional awareness surrounding the experience allows you to successfully retain the positively life-changing connection with Mother Ayahuasca long after you exit the jungle and return to your home environment – this is how miracles turn into your reality.
What type of services does Sherree Offer?
Information addressing your concerns about the use of psychedelic substances/entheogens based on contemporary scientific research, ancient medicine teachings, my academic studies, professional training and personal experience
Support and guidance to those who are experiencing challenging and adverse effects related to psychedelic substances
Support and guidance to those who are undergoing a spiritual emergence or spiritual emergency, due to the use of psychedelic substances or otherwise
Educational tools to individuals who wish to learn how to support others who have experienced/are experiencing altered states.
What type of services does Sherree NOT offer?
Plant medicines or psychedelic substances of any kind, or advice on where/how to acquire them
Psychedelic therapy sessions, guided medicine journeys, or ceremonies involving plant medicines or psychedelic substances
References to facilitators or centers who provide psychedelics/medicine sessions
Recommendations for using any plant medicines/psychedelic substances
Psychotherapy or other clinical mental health services, medical services, evaluations or diagnosis, or legal services.
Sherree Malcolm Godasi, “The Psychedelic Integration Coach”, lends a passionate philosophy about mindful integration of the psychedelic experience as an enriching self-care practice and a harm reduction technique. She holds a Master’s in psychology specializing in Psychedelic Integration Therapy with a focus on spiritual/depth theories, is a certified senior Psychedelic Integration and Addiction Recovery Coach at Being True To You and is trained in Spiritual Emergence. She also co-leads ayahuasca healing retreats to Peru, incorporating a preparation and post-retreat integration program. Her approach draws from transpersonal, mindfulness and shamanic healing modalities to fuse ancient wisdom with modern & practical practices. At this psychedelic renaissance she hopes to educate towards a responsible engagement with entheogens to cultivate a connection with our inner healer and live that psychedelic feeling.
David Stetson – Oka Center Ibogaine – Ibogaine Therapy
IBOGAINE and AYAHUASCA in the MAYAN YUCATÁN
Kyle and Joe discuss iboga and ibogaine with David Stetson who runs Oka Ibogaine Center in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. David was a wonderful guest on the show and we had a lovely talk that was very broad. We discussed the ecological issues surrounding iboga and ibogaine therapy, as well as the differences between the more traditional model and the clinical model of administering these medicines. Oka has recently started offering ayahuasca retreats as well.
We also get to talk about the idea of psychedelic aftercare facilities and they are substantial importance for people requiring serious psychedelic work to heal. When healing, going back to your old life is often not the best decision. The inpatient rehab model is something that we should really look at. The Holistic House in the Las Vegas area is one successful model and we are very excited about it.
We hope you enjoy the episode and reach out if you have any questions or comments.
Our place is a marriage of two different worlds: While we respect and utilize western clinical protocols for safety and detox success, we love and live by our numerous and ongoing experiences with the traditional use of these master plants in Africa and Peru.
David’s passion has been Bwiti since his Iboga initiation in 2007. It’s his privilege to be sharing this medicine with people in need.
David is extensively well-traveled in Gabon, Africa where he is known as Okukwe. During his time in Gabon he learned Bwiti traditions, music, and ceremonial practices and is proficient on both the moungongo (musical bow) and ngombi (harp) instruments.
David views Bwiti and Ibogaine as a lifeway that champions communion with others while also empowering the individual. His approach to working and healing with others starts with the awareness of alienation and isolation as common and appropriate responses to our western culture, and is based in nonjudgement.
Kyle and Joe recently chatted with a second therapist who works underground. Trained as a traditional therapist, this therapist integrates MDMA work into her practice with selective clients. She has been mentored by a teacher who has done this work for a very long period of time. She has a community of therapists around her providing support.
MDMA is not a typical psychedelic drug but it is the focus of most of MAPS’s efforts in the Psychedelic Psychotherapy world. Psychedelic therapy is THE frontier of psychology. Therapists like Selina are on the vanguard of these therapies. By working underground they have great risks (legal) and advantages (huge amounts of healing for their patients).
Why are we waiting? We are in a mental health crisis, far too many people are suffering and committing suicide. If one compares this to any recent “outbreak” the numbers certainly make sense to fast track MDMA as a viable therapy for PTSD and other disorders.
We want to keep interviewing people doing underground work, so please send them our way for interviews. We are going to be able to provide anonymity for those that want it, so feel free to ask about this if you want it.
Enjoy!!
MDMA Therapist – Show Notes
Dosage for sessions
135-140 mg starting dose
80 mg booster (optional)
Psilocybin dosing – Depends on what type of experience a person is looking for
We will not provide any information about this therapist. Please do not email/contact us about therapy sessions or gaining information about the therapist. These interviews are anonymous and private. We can provide general advice. We will not provide any information about this or other anonymous guests of the show. Thanks for understanding!
“Can I use my mind as a tool to help me open a closed heart?”
We talked to a 79-year-old underground MDMA psychotherapist. Remaining anonymous, due to the illegality of this work, he shares some of his greatest insights from his many years of experience helping people with psychedelic therapy. Succeeding a twenty-year hiatus from MDMA therapy, he continues to provide this healing psychedelic work to individuals today.
The following is an excerpt from our interview. Check out the full audio interview here.
Edited by: Alyssa Gursky
MDMA – Confessions of an Underground Therapist
Psychedelics Today: How did you get exposed to the literature and science around psychedelics in those early days?
Anonymous: It wasn’t the literature. In 1958, when I was 20 years old, someone got a hold of some acid. I was living in Boston and a friend of mine said,
“Would you like to try this new drug?”
I was naïve and I didn’t know. The only drug I’d ever consumed was alcohol. I said, “It is habit-forming?” They said, “No.” I said, “Alright. I’ll try it.”
I told my friend I was going to try it that day. The next day, when I met him on the street, he asks, “How was it?” I said, “Considerably more interesting than the sum total of my life up until this point.”
Psychedelics Today: What has surprised you the most about working with people at MDMA? Do you see rapid transformations? Is it kind of a catalyst for a longer set of transformations or transformational process? How do you think about it?
Anonymous: In order to answer that, I have to emphasize that people are in different stages of understanding and growth in their own level of self-knowledge. Also, people have set a lot of defenses against change in the conscious and unconscious mind.
I especially like looking at relationships; relationship to one’s self, relationship to nature and something beyond one’s self and relationship to one’s friends, to one’s lover, or one’s past lovers, and to the people that push your buttons. Looking at the difference between the way that the relationship feels normally and the way you feel towards the person when your heart is more open because of the medicine is the greatest benefit, in my eyes. Looking at those relationships, people sometimes get glimpses of what it could feel like if their hearts were open instead of closed. Sometimes, they even realize that they do not have any good reason to keep it closed.
Psychedelics Today: It’s like one of its better effects is just kind of a reorientation towards daily life. No need to be closed off, no need to be fearful.
Anonymous: Of course. That doesn’t mean they don’t go back to being have been closed off and fearful, but when you go back to the old place because you’ve tasted the new place, the old place is never quite the same.
Psychedelics Today: I am am curious if you could share any stories of people’s healing, anonymized, of course.
Anonymous: One comes to mind, a man who was brought up in a minority community out West and was molested by a man who was not part of the community. The man told him at the end, “You better not tell anyone about this or else … ” and he threatened him with something pretty terrible. This young boy did tell. He told his people in his community. They found the man and beat him until he was at the ends of his life. My client told me that he felt really guilty for what had happened, even though it’s not rational to feel guilty. He felt really guilty and the guilt spilled over until many areas of his life and was the sort of central pillar of his psychology, this feeling of being bad, unworthy of love as a result of that.
When he took the medicine, he told me about his situation. I just asked him, “Pretend that it is your son who gets molested and is told that he mustn’t tell and then, he told anyway; how would you feel towards him?” He had a moment’s pause and said, “I will just love him.” Then, he made the connection himself and there was a visible, immediate change that came over his facial expression and looked like a different person. He dropped the majority of his guilt. It stayed with him because I saw him the next day and he still looked much more relaxed, whole, and happy. He said that there was a fundamental shift in him as a result that couldn’t just end when the effects of the medicine wore off.
Relating to my own growth, I found that emotional maturity and self exploration are key portions of my journey. I found that every single relational difficulty that I found in myself, if I looked at it it deep enough, brought me to the same lesson- that I wasn’t being kind to myself. When I’m feeling good about myself, I just don’t have relational difficulties. Of course, most of us have a ways to go before we can feel good about ourselves. Another thing, I realized, is the hurt doesn’t come from rejection, it comes from my taking offense at rejection. If I learn not to take offense, I’ll get hurt a lot less. That would just be an example of a much bigger principle.
Psychedelics Today: I really appreciate your focus on the relationship aspect of healing work. My teacher and I were discussing psychedelic use in traditional cultures. To the Native Americans, Peyote usage is all about relationship; a relationship to the medicine, a relationship to the universe. It doesn’t seem like that’s always the case.
When we were asking another teacher about like, “How would you pitch breathwork to somebody that’s interested?” His first response was, “Are you curious? Are you curious about your relationship to the world?” I think that’s kind of like the cornerstone of self-discovery. It’s about learning about your relationship to yourself, learning about your relationship to others, learning about your relationship to the universe and how you interact with it.
Anonymous: One more side on the matter is that I look at the spiritual literature of the world. I noticed that there’s very little believable and useful literature about intimate partnerships between two equal people in the spiritual literature. Most spiritual literature just says, “Be loving. Be kind. Be forgiving.” That’s very nice, but they don’t talk about how do you do that when your heart is closed?
I think the deepest question when one is in relationship is, am I safe? Is it safe for me to love? Do I need to close my heart in order to stay safe? I believe the answer to that question is always no, but we often think it’s yes.
The MDMA affected my work by the nature of the changes it brought about in me. We saw things about opening… I really saw that the central issue for most people is very simply put, the need to open the closed heart. I look at everything in the world that I found distasteful; war and violence, starvation and hunger, economic inequality, environmental disaster, the stuff that goes on in the homes, and every single thing seemed like it wouldn’t take place if they were loved.
It seemed like the same factor that caused disharmony in the home is what caused war among nations, you know, like “as above, so below.” It felt like there’s this one change needed in the human consciousness which could be summarized by the opening of the closed heart, and that became my biggest interest. Can I use my mind as a tool to help me open the closed heart?
Psychedelics Today: Looking back at all these years of doing your own self-exploration and providing a space for people to do their own exploration and healing, is there a piece of advice that you have gathered and would like to pass on? You must have seen a lot and been through a lot. To us, you are this elder passing some serious wisdom on. I’m curious if you have any deep insights.
Anonymous: Boy! From what I’ve experienced, I can say that most of the time, people start from an assumption that the world is unsafe. In order to make it safe, they attempt to control people, events, and circumstances. If you start with “I’m not safe,” then the only thing I’ll ever arrive at is, “I’m still not safe.” We’re all looking for a feeling of deep, deep safety. I think safety is like love. The only safety worth anything is unconditional safety. A safety that doesn’t depend on circumstances is the most valuable because circumstances are out of our control. I think that the piece of advice would be — consider the possibility that the world is safe. Start with that and see where that takes you.
Psychedelics Today: Thank you for that. That’s a really, really great piece of insight.
MDMA is hugely beneficial for some (most?) people, and it makes sense to optimize for the best outcome. People can now try this on their own. It is easier and safer than ever. With all of the new research being published, this is happening with increasing frequency. Interested in learning about integration and self-care? Be sure to check out our “Psychedelic Integration & Self-Care” course! Free course preview in the sign up link below. Learn about MDMA and many other drugs in the course we created for you and your friends.
Download Kevin is a science writer, graduate student researcher and aspiring clinician, harm reduction educator and substance use recovery advocate. Kyle and Joe talk to him about loads of topics including early Iboga therapies, an early Boston Ibogaine Conference, his approach to journalism and his future aspirations to do future clinical work and research.
Kevin graduated from Northeastern University in 2013 with a degree in neuroscience. As an undergraduate he completed an internship as a research assistant at Harvard Medical School working on the Phase 2 dose-response study investigating the therapeutic potential of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for treatment of cancer related anxiety. Kevin was also one of the founders of the Northeastern chapter of Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and in 2009 the group hosted and co-sponsored the Boston Ibogaine Forum. He now lives in New York City where he is enrolled in a clinical psychology graduate program at The New School for Social Research and is pursuing a doctoral degree. Kevin has worked part-time for the Drug Policy Alliance, and also works as a writer covering topics related to psychedelic therapy, addiction, and mental health advocacy. His recent contributions include: New Scientist, Reason.com, Reset.me, Reality Sandwich, and VICE.com.
Kyle and Joe talk to an anonymous MDMA therapist and relationship coach. He has been working with people while they use MDMA beginning in the early days while it was still legal and continues to facilitate work with people while it is prohibited.
For his safety, his identity is kept anonymous. The insights here are wonderful and worth learning. Hopefully you will learn something here and it can be applied to future therapies once we hit the 2021 MAPS target date.
Some interesting thoughts from the interview:
Transcending the parent-child relationship.
We are human beings that can be in good relationship with one another.
Do I feel safe? What does it mean to feel safe?
Appropriate dosages.
Intuitive approaches for engaging with the client patient.
Download Kyle recently had the great opportunity to attend one module of the MAPS MDMA Therapy sessions. In this episode we talk about the experience at the workshop and about some other valuable topics as well. Let us know what you think, and please leave a review on iTunes! Continue reading “Kyle and Joe – MAPS MDMA training in New York”
Ingmar Gorman, M.A. is a currently unlicensed doctoral student in Clinical Psychology at the New School for Social Research. His clinical work is supervised by licensed clinical psychologists at his training sites. After receiving his B.A. in Psychology from the New College of Florida. Ingmar completed a pre-doctoral externship at Bellevue’s Chemical Dependency Outpatient Program and Dual Diagnosis Inpatient Unit, where he obtained specialized training in treating people living with substance use disorders. He has also gained extensive experience treating severe mental illness at South Beach Psychiatric Hospital’s Heights Hill Outpatient Clinic. Ingmar has trained in individual and group psychotherapy at Beth Israel Medical Center’s Psychiatric Inpatient Services, as well as the Brief Psychotherapy Research Program. Ingmar uses an integrative approach to treatment utilizing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Psychodynamic principles. When treating substance misuse, Ingmar draws on his extensive training with Dr. Andrew Tatarsky and Dr. Jen Talley, in Harm Reduction Psychotherapy and Mindfulness based approaches.
Download Philosophy and psychedelics brought Lenny to Holotropic Breathwork. Since then he has co-facilitated countless sessions with even more people mainly in Vermont, but also in Massachusetts and Maine. Lenny and Elizabeth (his wife) have helped foster Kyle and Joe’s interest in Holotropic states and facilitating breathwork sessions. We are thankful and happy to share this two part interview with Lenny Gibson.